With $50K Left and a 40% Failure Rate, How FightCamp Rebuilt After the COVID Boom and Bust

For us because of the nature of what we wanted to build we had to make electronics in Asia whenever you have a business that has Physical goods in it it took me a long time to figure out how harder it is to actually build a business like that because it just requires a lot of money to Transform that money into physical things. I have to be made and shipped from anywhere that you're gonna make them Most business advice is wrong built on opinions echoed by people who've never done it But the truth it's simpler and harder You don't win by following the playbook you win by rewriting it 700 episodes deep with the people who actually built something real no theory no fluff no shortcuts This is right about now with Ryan Alford a Lot of people talk about startups like his strategy and growth and nothing else But really it's survival of the fittest today's guest has lived just that building a company through all of it The high is the lows raising capital and somehow coming out on the other side Khalil Zahar is the founder and chief operating officer of fight camp He's been punched in the face more than once, but he is here right about now What's up Khalil welcome to write about now? What's up? What's up, Ryan? How are you? I'm great man. I know you've had success But it probably didn't come exactly the way you thought it ever does everybody thinks it's glamorous or at least they used to Maybe we're catching everybody up now with all the content It actually sucks to be an entrepreneur because we were in that era what five six years ago It was just a flashy hey the lambo's and all the funds that hey, I'm an entrepreneur It might be have gone 180 degrees the other direction. It sucks. You have to work really hard 500 hours do not do it unless you want to kill yourself, but hey try to be an entrepreneur The bitch is less compelling than maybe 10 years ago, but it's still worthwhile I told you beforehand just punching people in the face every day being an entrepreneur that goes all the way around You're training people to punch bags typically and I'm actually used your product It's really cool the tracker and all that stuff. I was pumped another pun intended But literally I was amazed how it worked my arms. Sorry It'll be a little bit of an infomercial people because I like this product a lot. It's actually cool shit But I do want to pick Cleel's brain a little bit on the journey story We're really trying to get underneath now our premise Cleel is most at businesses advice is wrong We're bringing on the real builders makers that are actually building the shit to talk about it Just maybe in your own words that journey what's it been like how long we met at this in my boxing basically I started the company 12 years ago Assemble a group of five like-minded individuals which became my co-founders helped us shape this vision over 12 years We all kind of started out of college really It was an interesting trajectory because we didn't have a lot of industry experience We didn't have a lot of processes. We were just young hungry kids with a dream The origin story of why boxing is for me I discovered boxing when I was pretty late in my life to be competitive at a sport I was 20 when I discovered boxing I played a lot of soccer growing up at 14 years old that discovered B-boying breakdancing which is actually how I met two of my co-founders I was just heavy into that until basically I was 20 and then at 20 years old I've completely fell in love with boxing It was this art form that was pretty intimidating to me at first going to the boxing gym for the first time I was like I don't know if I'm just gonna get my ass kicked I don't know if I even fit in in there and I found a beautiful community in Toronto Basically all I was doing it lined up with me moving I had finished my mechanical engineering degree I was going to school in Toronto because I just didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life yet I wanted to continue to compete in B-boying and join where the best people are Toronto also was a great place to develop my English because I didn't speak English for shit honestly I went there discovered boxing and about two years later man I have no idea if I'm continuing to progress here or I'm just plateauing and this is the cap And this is where I was like this is crazy that in this sport we're not measuring anything You're measuring things here and there but it's very old school It's very kind of craft warrior minded would just put your head down and just trust the process And then you'll fill it in the ring me having a little bit of experience with other sports I was like man there's technology everywhere This is how I kind of put what I was studying and that sport together That got us our start literally in 2014 The measurement thing is interesting My grandfather who passed away when I was pretty young probably 15 But at age 10 I would sit in his lap and watch boxing I would age myself late 80s It's hard to find boxing on TV a ton but they had it on ESPN They playback my grandfather would get out of chair and do the rope of dope Jav and stuff and taught me how to throw the combinations just barely Not really teaching me to fight They used to just like showing me like what it is My fondest members are growing up were with my grandfather And to this day I love watching boxing The sports guy in the little wacky It's interesting I did see people train in the classic like you said the gym You're throwing the right form but there was never a way to really track it Because you didn't have sort of the biometrics To do what we can do now with these fitness trackers In anything we say what gets tracked Gets measured what gets measured gets improved That's why I loved about this product It nailed it as far as boxing goes Kind of the endless jabs and throw a punches around But not knowing what energy did I exert How far was I going was I improving Was my form improving That's always been a very hard thing in technical form sports The most scientific people back then were using clickers on their athletes And these are like the most advanced coaches Olympic level coaches professional athletes They're just recreating punch volume Which punch volume is only one metric And that's not necessarily the best metric But that's how archaic it was If I'm not hitting hard There's not exertion right Exactly that's just looking at it from a conditioning standpoint You have all this other aspect which is How is your tactical how is your tactics changing As you actually go within a fight and you get tired And you stop using certain punches you should be using And so for it the sport is so dynamic That there's just nothing ready to help enhance it That's the problem solved We talked about why we got you into the boxing Why you started the company But we've been 12 years What didn't you expect? What did you expect? How did you turn the corner So now you had a few moments of doubt When I got into it the first things like Hey I found something that there's a need for it in the market And we're talking to it in the mid 2010s This is at a time where like Google was buying companies left and right Where becoming a founder was Within four years, five years You build a company, you work really hard And then you sell the company five years later If you do well you can make a lot of money Four or five years I'll hit it hard And then I can buy seven other companies That I really want to do And rob my Lambo all around Miami Yeah yeah exactly I was reading a stat yesterday on Instagram The average length of exit And tech companies has went from basically four years to 13 Now when you look at the journey And you're like I'm going to spend maybe more than a decade Working on this basically for me I spend all of my thirties Late twenties and thirties on it You start to look at the journey a little differently Because like you only have one thirties You're not going to relive them So this idea that you're just going to clock in 70 hours a week for 12 years And basically do all these sacrifices Now it has to be reframed a little bit And you have to find your Well-being and happiness throughout you the whole journey This isn't a get-rich quick type scheme Like there's some people that do it But it's really not the norm The raw and realness of what you just said Google is actually really interesting Be giving up your thirties People come in to things Unless you're a trust fund maybe Come for money or just you want the lottery or something We all work to live Certainly if it's worked at pays well It's probably typically not easy Working for someone else and clocking out And having that job that pays well But doesn't have necessarily the upside Or the pressures So the positive and the negative Of entrepreneurship Is a different experience Than being an entrepreneur in your thirties You said that prime time Peak performer Most energy in your life probably Thirties are like this combination of energy And just enough wisdom You twit ease your stupid You got all the energy in the world You're dumbass Thirties Hey, I still got the energy I still look like I'm 20 Something And I got a little wisdom Mahami Ooh, I'm real dangerous now Yeah, I agree We're speaking a lot about the negative side But I would never give it back No Yeah, it's just reality Fulfilling If I would have to like say what surprised me the most Is the stuff that I thought was hard Is actually not the stuff that is hard The real hard part was elsewhere I thought the hard part was actually getting People to buy your stuff and then make a good product Probably actually at the beginning I thought making a good product was the hard part Turns out at the beginning Selling it as much harder than just making it And then you start to get some success And then the hard part is Leadership and assembling and running a team In a way that it stays cohesive Does what it's supposed to do Which sounds weirdly easy when you start like Yeah, like I'll have just like these 25-30 people working for me I'm just gonna tell them what to do It's actually much harder to get them to do What you think they should do And for them to understand What they need to do and why they're doing it While also being all very happy to work together Yeah, it's one thing to be a really great donut maker Man, that recipe is awesome You make a great donut It's a whole another thing to build a factory And what it takes to run the factory It's hard to be an entrepreneur It's hard to grow a business It's hard to do these things But those were rewarding Khalil, talk to me about what if you learned Someone like yourself, you've got a successful company What's the biggest thing other than Things that were hard and very easy But we'll unlock something I want to stay away from all the generic stuff That people say that still applies But still is a little bit known A principle that still to this day is very true We have the chance to be funded by Y Combinator early on in our journey Then one of their principles is such a simple principle But I think still ultimately can get forgotten a little bit Is growth solves 80% of your problems Basically whenever you have a growing company The business is performing It's really a cheat code It's like you can get away with so much stuff You can afford better people's performance It's a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy Where now every person you collaborate with From partners, external brands All the way to your investors Everyone becomes a higher quality Which then kind of feeds into the whole circle There's really something about Trying to position yourself as part of that loop Really make the most out of it Because whenever your business is not growing much Everything is harder From convincing someone to join your company There's obviously there's a fundamental Probably reason your customers are probably not that happy about your product Because you're not growing The whole job of doing a good job as an entrepreneur Then starts to get a lot harder Sometimes in the midst of having 1700 different challenges I find that a little bit of clarity And just focusing on What can I really do to grow? Most likely this is probably the best thing I can spend time on That's one learning Would we define growth as sales? Could be sales but it could be retention I would say just growing in terms of revenue If you keep more people, keep more revenue If your revenue is growing Without just like burning a bunch of capital But let's say you're growing You still will have a much easier time being successful That's good I'm writing a book called Lifetime Loss Because you've heard a Lifetime value Lifetime loss In a world obsessed with sales Don't ever forget about your customers now It's too much cheaper to keep a happy customer Than to find a new one If sales is the lifeblood Customers are the oxygen Equally important Growth and brand and perception are reality People want to attach to a winner People buy winners People join winners It's real hard to enact change To get momentum Or get a loan from the bank Or do anything from a place of negative energy Negative growth Just sort of downward slides And it's like it's combination of brand If you believe in the cosmic universe Of positive and negative energy There's nothing more true in business Than if something's positive man Oh everything Everything And when it's negative man It is the exact opposite Everything else is harder You nailed it Speak to that a little bit more Early on we just developed a tech That is a tracker you put on your wrist But we transformed the business in 2018 To be an online platform To train and learn boxing in martial arts You use the tech to make the workouts interactive When COVID hit us in 2020 We were perfectly positioned At a very unique place It was very bad for the world But very good for us Where the company grew In a way that I don't think I'll ever see this again In my lifetime It's crazy amount of growth at scale That just didn't stop At that point It felt everything was possible Like it felt like literally like I couldn't go wrong Every strategy Every tactic Every person that we speak to That is an A-plus talent Everything was lining up To be very easy to win And then COVID ended But a year and a half later From where it started And things started to get very very hard And momentum was declining Literally it was the longest hangover of my life really For four years straight between 2021 to 2025 The business kept losing scale Because we had grown so much during COVID Then all the gyms reopened You basically five extra competitions suddenly You go from not having gyms to go to And home being the only place where people trained Suddenly home fitness is only 20% Of the market This was super hard Morely and momentum wise Even for the team internally It only literally took us This is like the first year Beginning of 2025 I'll do it today Where momentum is up into the right again One of the lessons that I had for me Was at some point Surrounding yourself too much By negative momentum Is going to be judgmental Even though the people are skilled Because like for us we had to cut down The company multiple times That's extremely hard From a team member standpoint You don't know if you're going to be next You don't really have as in the decision You're just there And you can feel a little bit powerless We really kept the team Tried to keep as many people as we can the whole time The last reduction in force that we did We went from 50 people Given take to about third of that We really like cut pretty deep And one of the selection criteria To decide if we want to keep someone or not Is there just own motivation Are they a momentum giver Or they are a momentum taker We made that decision because previously We kept some people that were very skilled And very good at their job But ultimately if there's an energy around them That felt like it was just things We're just getting harder And they wouldn't do their best work Since we did that And we only kept people that were motivated And really wanted to actually see this through The company has actually recovered really well We're super lean But actually feels like we're faster than ever Managing people is hard And I've seen this You really nailed the like the three bucket Of employees or team members You've got the plus, the adders They don't have to be perfect But they're adding value They're in it They're energies are there You know where they're at You've got the neutrals They're probably skilled Aren't hurting you But also aren't maybe probably pushing you up And you need some of those Not everyone's gonna be plus And you got the detractors And they might be highly skilled Might even be successful But if they are pulling the whole boat down And maybe they're the only ones doing well They're a salesperson Their sales are really good individually But they kind of have a negative cheat On the whole business And the energy And what they say behind everyone's back That's the snake in the grass too That's the ones that get you You don't even know they're there Like dang man Numbers look good Momentum is a real thing Not later than a couple weeks I got just like spoke to my co-founders And I was like listen guys I need some of your energy And optimism In some case Because I feel like I'm carrying the optimism Obviously they responded super well With that they're experienced by now But it's a thing that affects the founders Directly too You should never run out of optimism Because if you do The company is gonna die Yeah you've always got to believe You're the chief belief officer I mean that's what it is If there's any doubt that the chief believes Oh you're done so Khalil I had my notes There was an overseas decision That might have helped save the company Well as that Early on we chose an interesting business Nowadays being a founder This day and age of software Is amazing Especially now that you have AI Literally like three people companies Can make a hell lot of money And build like pretty complex products Even when I started Making software If you had the team That can't build software It's the cheapest products to make Basically you're making ones in zeros For us because of the nature of what we wanted to build We had to make electronics in Asia Whenever you have a business that has physical goods in it It took me a long time to figure out how harder it is To actually build a business like that Because it just requires a lot of money To transform that money into physical things And have to be made and shipped from anywhere That you're gonna make them We were able to get away with very little money Because we had a lot of knowledge inside of our co-founding team My co-founder Alex And my other co-founder Alex Were both electrical and software engineers So they were able to make the devices But it was super risky We got to the stage That we call the Valley of Death For hardware startups Which is When you basically know you can You have customers And they can buy your product But you don't not have necessarily enough money to produce it You've done all the hard part You validated that what you're gonna build is great That there's a market for it You might even done back in the kickstarter To fund the first batch But then making the first batch took longer than they had expected So now they don't have the money to deliver the product This little moment Wipes out 90% of the hardware startup We were able to get to a first batch of 3000 units And it's in Hong Kong And it's about to get shipped And we have customers sending us hate mail Because they've been waiting longer than they expected to get their product And we're like, yeah, it's coming out, it's coming out And we get a batch of 10 pairs That we test in our super small office in Irvine In California 4 out of 10 don't work This is like 7 p.m. And we're all excited Because we're finally gonna test the batch And like we grab the box It looks great Some guys are like opening beers And it's like Awesome We're gonna ship this And this is in 2017 My co-founder, Alex comes to me And he's like Hey man, can I speak to you for a second Yeah, what's up We kind of have a 40% failure rate right here And I'm not sure why This is during Chinese New Year too So we can't speak to the China team Because they're out on vacation And he was like I think we're done guys This is it We started thinking about what to do We had all these guys that were waiting for their units That helped us fund the whole thing We had like $50,000 in the bank Which sounds like a lot of money maybe for early founders But this is basically a month and a half of salaries And expenses just to run the business I think we all need to go to China And figure this out That's just the only thing that we have to do That flights to go there They were like $18,000 From the $50,000 we had We start having conversations And then we call our partners If we can get a hold of them Turns out six of us At the time there was a there was a seventh That was there too but couldn't make it Six of us we grabbed literally a flight next day During Chinese New Year We get on the flight Literally everyone is Taiwanese or Chinese We're the wide guys going To Asia My partner Alex is like Hey I found a way to isolate the bug I think we can reprogram these trackers By buying a bunch of iPods And all scattering in the room And we just reprogram them During three days And this was like 12 hour days for three days We had calculated that we can reprogram the batch of 3,000 pairs The main reason was because we needed Basically a Bluetooth device That was cheap enough for us to buy it And communicate with the trackers to flash the firmware Four days later we went from like 40% failure rate To 8% We were able to get through the valley A death of heart or a sudden Ingenuity And resourcefulness That was a very symbolic trip Through our trajectory We called even some of our investors They were kind of throwing their hands And they're like listen These things happen You can try to ship them I don't really think the company will survive And we just kind of really took a bet on ourselves To like figure this out Without a lot of assurance And everyone was kind of caught of guard But it felt like a story that unified us As long as we have each other And we just jump into the challenge Head on We can figure out anything To jump figure this out on the plane ride Or literally when you got there Somebody told you I couldn't help because this was all electrical engineering And firmware engineering Two of the six really worked on this One guy organized the flights The other guy tried to get a hold of the partner To get access to the stuff So we had to pay a security guy To open the door for us At the fulfillment center So we can stay there And we paid him like triple the rate Because it was Chinese New Year The fourth guy was just honestly ordering pizza and beer Just being like let me know what you need The two engineers Found what they thought was the root cause But didn't have a solution yet But that was like okay I think we at least know it's solvable On the plane Alex our CTO Build a solution and tested it He didn't sleep He's the only one that didn't sleep on the plane When you got it China did you just have fun in Chinese New Year Not for the first four days Cause the first four days we were super jet lagged And the job was all right Everyone has these iPods And we're all gonna spread out in the factory And he had taught us the reprogramming procedure For 12 hours straight We're just reprogramming the electronic devices Not speaking to anybody After we were done Not everyone stayed But I stayed with a couple of our partners And we celebrated properly Tell me what fight camp is Who it's for What people can expect Hit all those key points for me Fight camp the number one platform To learn and or train With boxing or martial arts from home We basically have the deepest curriculum That you can find online On how to A get started if that's where you're starting All the way to just I know my foundation And I'm just trying to Train with a quality instructor from home This is not your table This is not some choreography Music and do's like This is actually real martial arts training But it's made to be engaging We have different track We have boxing We have kickboxing We have a multi-program We have MMA basics With Steven Wunderborg, Thompson Etc. Etc. Etc. What makes this product special Is we are using Our technology that we initially developed For professional athletes To track your progress And engage you during your workout Because that's one of the biggest problems With training at home Is very little motivation To just push yourself Outside of your own motivation And this actually keeps you accountable And engages you to really push Past the normal point that you would probably be giving up on If you just didn't have anything The last piece is we make equipment That is specifically designed for your own Our freestanding bag Is literally the only freestanding bag That you can really hit hard Without it just knocking it down Without all the hassle of putting a hanging bag And one of your support beings with the chains And all that You can move it around We even designed the sound sleeve If you want to train in early in the morning Last night Not bother your family or neighbors That's fight camp We're expanding actually this month And we're reviving the initial product that we launched with Which is made for professional athletes For the first time in eight years We actually are launching a product That is aimed for people that already go to the gym And wants to challenge themselves Money to their progress See how they perform in benchmark against others Without having the whole content Classes on top of it It's a lower price subscription Think of it as like Strava But for boxing and martial arts Nice Very cool and you can have A friendly competition board I am With big dude I've got one of these at home I'm going to be a little bit of the salesperson here for Khalil Number one The hardware and software is premium It's the only bag I've ever had that I can hit I'm 65275 And it can take everything I can throw at it And it doesn't move Got a water base Premium quality gloves And these trackers that you put in the wrist bands That literally you've got a tv screen If you choose to do the monitoring You can choose the trainer type Literally it's interactive with you It feels But literally they're talking to you They're giving your feedback It feels like a real live experience Literally every hit is being tracked on the screen Plus in the gloves It's really cool There's a whole sequencing with it That feels very natural And also motivating It'll kick your ass If you do it I love the product man It's cool Awesome Thanks Ryan I'm happy you like the product It's premium man And it's cool Those trackers They've got these little rechargeable sensors They go in the gloves If you hit that bag It registers on the screen It's all connected It's legit I really love your authenticity And realness here Give some deeds on social web All that stuff For a little more about Fightcam What you're up to You can find everything about our product And content A library And so forth on Fightcam.com In one word Then you can follow us At Fightcam on Instagram We are also on TikTok We have a huge YouTube channel With lots of videos And tutorials On breaking down techniques Our whole voice And role And purpose on YouTube Is to make this super Deep protected knowledge accessible To everybody When it comes to boxing and martial arts If you're just curious You can go on there And find a lot of breakdowns A lot of onboarding And beginner techniques on there If you want to get started On my end You can follow me On Instagram I am Atalil Zahar K-H-A-L-I-L Last name Zahar Z-A-H-A-G-R And I'm actually trying to Post a little more on there But you can reach out to me And super happy to connect with you guys Cool It's been fun man I really appreciate you coming on Like us and thanks a lot for having me Hey guys You're gonna find us Ryan is right Thatcom Find all the highlight clips You'll find all those links That Clil just mentioned And I'm telling you You need to get fight camp If you're bored But you're routine It will mix it up If you're a little curious about boxing But aren't sure how to do it It feels like the most natural at home training You will get without actually a person there Go check out fight camp And look In business And in life We're all getting punched in the face But just remember It's not about how You punch It's about how you get up How you respond And you get after it We'll see you next time All right about now Here's the truth Information doesn't change your life Execution does So don't just listen to this episode And move on Take the idea Make the call Launch the thing Fix the problem Build what you keep talking about building For more Follow Ryan Ulford on Instagram At Ryan Ulford And watch or listen to every episode At RyanIsRight.com This is right about now Now quit waiting Go win