The Hiring Crisis Is a Marketing Problem: Nicole Feenstra on Employer Branding, AI and Retention

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.131 --> 00:00:03.734
On today's episode of Right About Now, I talk to Nicole Feenstra.

2
00:00:04.174 --> 00:00:08.898
She is the CEO and founder of the DNA Agency, the DNA of hiring.

3
00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:10.059
Yeah, that's right.

4
00:00:10.099 --> 00:00:11.840
We gotta market our positions better.

5
00:00:12.161 --> 00:00:13.762
Everybody wonders why you can't hire good people.

6
00:00:13.902 --> 00:00:14.903
You know why you don't hire good people?

7
00:00:15.123 --> 00:00:16.424
You don't market it the right way.

8
00:00:16.905 --> 00:00:20.467
We talk about why work shouldn't be called work, it should be called opportunity.

9
00:00:20.828 --> 00:00:23.450
And today is your opportunity right here, right now.

10
00:00:26.072 --> 00:00:28.253
You don't win by following the playbook.

11
00:00:28.633 --> 00:00:30.714
You win by rewriting it.

12
00:00:31.514 --> 00:00:36.176
700 episodes deep with the people who actually built something real.

13
00:00:36.676 --> 00:00:37.376
No theory.

14
00:00:37.856 --> 00:00:38.617
No fluff.

15
00:00:39.217 --> 00:00:40.217
No shortcuts.

16
00:00:40.838 --> 00:00:44.359
This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford.

17
00:00:52.462 --> 00:00:53.302
What's up, Nicole?

18
00:00:53.362 --> 00:00:54.943
Welcome to Right About Now.

19
00:00:55.762 --> 00:00:56.242
Thank you.

20
00:00:56.782 --> 00:00:57.503
Nice to see you.

21
00:00:57.823 --> 00:00:58.543
Good to see you.

22
00:00:58.803 --> 00:01:00.364
We have mutual friends.

23
00:01:01.084 --> 00:01:02.044
I like what I've read.

24
00:01:02.064 --> 00:01:03.385
I love storytelling.

25
00:01:03.465 --> 00:01:05.346
So I'm hoping we get into all that today.

26
00:01:05.906 --> 00:01:07.146
Okay, I'm ready.

27
00:01:07.666 --> 00:01:08.107
Let's do it.

28
00:01:08.127 --> 00:01:09.627
Where are we at today, Nicole?

29
00:01:10.607 --> 00:01:11.888
West Hollywood, California.

30
00:01:12.368 --> 00:01:12.828
There we go.

31
00:01:13.208 --> 00:01:13.969
Hollywood.

32
00:01:14.369 --> 00:01:14.909
Hollywood.

33
00:01:14.969 --> 00:01:16.650
What's happening in West Hollywood in 2026?

34
00:01:18.297 --> 00:01:18.858
Goodness me.

35
00:01:18.878 --> 00:01:20.039
You know, I just moved here.

36
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.782
I was in the I was affected by the Eaton fire in January of 25.

37
00:01:23.843 --> 00:01:30.769
So I've been in Pasadena for a really long time and just thought, you know, I'm going to I'm going to go right into the belly of the beast.

38
00:01:30.789 --> 00:01:33.432
I'm going to go right in the center of the city and see how it is.

39
00:01:34.033 --> 00:01:34.333
It's good.

40
00:01:34.353 --> 00:01:36.815
The roads are not as good as Pasadena, I will say.

41
00:01:37.276 --> 00:01:38.577
But there's a lot more to do.

42
00:01:39.178 --> 00:01:39.378
Yeah.

43
00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:40.079
Yeah.

44
00:01:40.099 --> 00:01:40.980
So where do we grow up?

45
00:01:41.100 --> 00:01:42.001
Do we grow up in California?

46
00:01:42.711 --> 00:01:45.134
Mostly Houston, Texas.

47
00:01:45.695 --> 00:01:45.975
All right.

48
00:01:46.416 --> 00:01:46.977
Texas.

49
00:01:47.017 --> 00:01:47.297
There we go.

50
00:01:47.317 --> 00:01:48.699
Now you're getting towards our territory.

51
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:49.680
We're in South Carolina.

52
00:01:50.241 --> 00:01:51.202
I saw that.

53
00:01:51.342 --> 00:01:52.464
I saw that.

54
00:01:52.764 --> 00:01:53.085
Yeah.

55
00:01:53.125 --> 00:01:55.167
My accent gives at least half of it away.

56
00:01:55.388 --> 00:01:58.071
You know, these guys from the South, but you're not exactly sure.

57
00:02:00.074 --> 00:02:09.078
I like to say I had a I had a I had like Boston nuns that that taught me in Houston and there was no fix in or any of that.

58
00:02:09.118 --> 00:02:15.742
So when I got to California, they didn't think I really sounded that Texas, except when I think all Nicole, what are we up to?

59
00:02:16.362 --> 00:02:17.863
Talk to me about the DNA agency.

60
00:02:19.023 --> 00:02:34.158
Yeah, you know, we're sort of we're a full service agency, but we have been doing a lot of consulting around workforce development and sort of fixing large systemic problems like workforce development, a lot of the stuff around the recovery.

61
00:02:35.099 --> 00:02:41.105
So we've we've really been doing a lot with regards to uncomplicating, very complicated things.

62
00:02:42.086 --> 00:02:44.288
Workforce development can be very complicated.

63
00:02:44.328 --> 00:02:45.469
There's a lot of steps in it.

64
00:02:45.529 --> 00:02:49.372
Recovery when you're coming back out of a fire or disaster is really complicated.

65
00:02:49.952 --> 00:03:03.543
So we really have specialized in finding ways to simplify the messaging for the people who need to find the solutions around whatever the subject is, whether it's jobs or getting back into their home after a fire or any other disaster.

66
00:03:03.583 --> 00:03:09.588
We figure out sort of where they need to see things and simplify the messages and just make sure they see them.

67
00:03:10.177 --> 00:03:14.854
So I hear the DNA agency and I was like, this is a really creative like HR company.

68
00:03:16.287 --> 00:03:19.769
Like someone's finally figured out how to market HR, you know?

69
00:03:19.789 --> 00:03:19.889
Yeah.

70
00:03:20.049 --> 00:03:27.333
Well, you know, and our, our website has, you know, all sorts of DNA kind of, you know, we definitely, people are like, are you the science company?

71
00:03:27.793 --> 00:03:31.835
We are a little, like, I like to say we're a little science, a little art, you know?

72
00:03:31.855 --> 00:03:35.036
I like, I think, um, you know, you've been in marketing a long time.

73
00:03:35.056 --> 00:03:45.502
If any, anybody that's been in digital advertising for any amount of time, it's, you know, there's a lot of, there's a, there's number crunching, but, um, but my heart is always in story.

74
00:03:45.562 --> 00:03:45.782
So.

75
00:03:46.595 --> 00:03:53.621
Yeah, I spent the first half, first half of my first half of my career of in the on the brand and analog side.

76
00:03:53.641 --> 00:03:57.804
And then the second half and it's, you know, it was more of the art for sure.

77
00:03:57.824 --> 00:04:01.948
And then it got into, you know, the storytelling was always there.

78
00:04:01.968 --> 00:04:08.533
But then with digital and digital marketing certainly became more data, technical focused.

79
00:04:08.753 --> 00:04:10.755
But I feel like I always I've always believed this.

80
00:04:10.855 --> 00:04:14.078
I like what I was reading about what you guys are doing, Nicole, like.

81
00:04:14.776 --> 00:04:18.162
you know, even with, you know, you have analysis paralysis from all the data.

82
00:04:18.543 --> 00:04:20.126
And at the end of the day, you still got to take an action.

83
00:04:20.166 --> 00:04:25.456
At the end of the day, people buy from people and you need to tell them stories and make them understand things.

84
00:04:25.596 --> 00:04:26.959
And sometimes the data...

85
00:04:28.383 --> 00:04:33.485
It doesn't get in the way of that, but I think you can get lost in conversions and metrics.

86
00:04:33.625 --> 00:04:51.009
And I'm not saying they don't matter, but that's been a little bit of the maddening part of it from someone that came up in the branding and storytelling side that we're so focused on an action today versus building something over time, which takes repetitive messages and storytelling to do.

87
00:04:51.970 --> 00:04:53.150
Where do you fall in that camp?

88
00:04:54.590 --> 00:05:03.360
You know, I found a data point that was from well before the Internet that said it takes 21 times for somebody to see something before they'll do something.

89
00:05:03.400 --> 00:05:05.322
And that data came from before the 1900s.

90
00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:16.682
So well before we got inundated with all of the amount of dog videos that I see on my feed, just that alone.

91
00:05:16.922 --> 00:05:23.083
And so I think it is, you know, when you think about where people are seeing and what they're seeing, I think you're right.

92
00:05:23.123 --> 00:05:30.505
I think people really need to see something that means something to them and sort of takes them through a journey because, you know,

93
00:05:30.645 --> 00:05:35.727
It is going to take them a lot of times, especially when they're not familiar with whatever the thing is.

94
00:05:35.807 --> 00:05:44.509
And when I talk about workforce development, I talk about the fact that we've had maybe a 70-year bad PR campaign around work.

95
00:05:44.969 --> 00:05:47.410
You know, it's always been how quickly can you retire?

96
00:05:47.830 --> 00:05:49.791
How quickly can you not work?

97
00:05:49.871 --> 00:05:53.332
You know, how quickly can you get rich and be done with work?

98
00:05:53.772 --> 00:05:57.173
And I think we've lost the idea of the value of work.

99
00:05:57.413 --> 00:06:04.316
The joy that can come from doing something you're really good at, doing something that gives you a sense of accomplishment.

100
00:06:04.376 --> 00:06:06.897
I saw a TED Talk.

101
00:06:06.977 --> 00:06:12.100
It was, gosh, I think like mid-2000s, Mike Rowe about work.

102
00:06:12.280 --> 00:06:18.743
And, you know, he was talking about like a trash collector can sometimes be happier than the guy in the corner office.

103
00:06:18.763 --> 00:06:19.263
Yeah.

104
00:06:19.363 --> 00:06:21.546
And it's an interesting conundrum.

105
00:06:21.786 --> 00:06:26.312
You know, he was doing these shows with people doing these really dirty jobs.

106
00:06:26.772 --> 00:06:29.956
And so he had these data points from having worked with people.

107
00:06:29.976 --> 00:06:34.021
And so I'm really interested from a story standpoint in like the value of work.

108
00:06:34.101 --> 00:06:34.742
It's something that's,

109
00:06:35.703 --> 00:06:38.846
gotten me very like jazzed as of late.

110
00:06:38.906 --> 00:06:43.250
Like, how do you make job sexy is really the conversation I have with my team.

111
00:06:43.711 --> 00:06:44.972
How do you make welding sexy?

112
00:06:44.992 --> 00:06:46.293
How do you make engineering sexy?

113
00:06:46.313 --> 00:06:47.674
How do you make IT sexy?

114
00:06:47.714 --> 00:06:49.736
How do you make construction sexy?

115
00:06:50.156 --> 00:06:52.479
You know, my team will be like, oh, right, we want to make it sexy.

116
00:06:52.499 --> 00:06:53.620
I'm like, just make it fun.

117
00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:54.360
Make it cool.

118
00:06:54.661 --> 00:06:57.003
You know, make it something that somebody would want to do.

119
00:07:04.727 --> 00:07:09.471
You said something really interesting, Nicole, that I want to kind of shine a light on.

120
00:07:09.952 --> 00:07:15.337
And I'd never, I guess, you know, we all think about the things that we think about because they're in our lane.

121
00:07:15.397 --> 00:07:21.243
And, you know, I like to think I'm introspective or even like, you know, trying to decipher what different things are.

122
00:07:21.323 --> 00:07:21.463
But.

123
00:07:22.918 --> 00:07:31.700
We've always sort of put work in this place where it had to earn its way out of being negative from the very beginning.

124
00:07:32.340 --> 00:07:34.840
And that is a terrible thing.

125
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:39.201
Because think about how much purpose we get from the work that we do.

126
00:07:39.221 --> 00:07:41.101
Think about all the good things that come from work.

127
00:07:41.141 --> 00:07:42.381
It provides our livelihoods.

128
00:07:42.421 --> 00:07:43.682
It provides for us.

129
00:07:44.242 --> 00:07:46.022
And we set it up from the beginning.

130
00:07:46.062 --> 00:07:50.463
And even the word work has become synonymous with something bad in a way.

131
00:07:50.523 --> 00:07:51.103
Oh, that's work.

132
00:07:51.923 --> 00:07:53.104
Oh, that sounds like work to me.

133
00:07:53.644 --> 00:07:55.605
I mean, wow.

134
00:07:55.745 --> 00:07:58.526
I know that's simple, but like it's so true.

135
00:07:58.786 --> 00:08:07.910
It's so fundamentally true for how the historical marketing of work in general has been so flawed and so negative that it's

136
00:08:08.550 --> 00:08:15.433
It's always, you know, people with jobs like yours and people, anyone that owns a business is trying to hire, you have to work against it.

137
00:08:15.554 --> 00:08:28.020
Cause like you're saying literally, Hey, I need you to come do something when you're not just, you know, doing your free time and here's why it's great, but it's not having fun.

138
00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:29.140
What?

139
00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:32.362
No, like it can be all of those things, right?

140
00:08:32.382 --> 00:08:32.482
Yeah.

141
00:08:33.540 --> 00:08:42.466
Well, and I think, you know, I think we, when we, like you talk about HR, you know, jobs and all of that ends up in the lane of HR, right?

142
00:08:42.506 --> 00:08:48.630
And they just put a long description that is what you and I like to probably call from marketing word salad.

143
00:08:49.010 --> 00:08:57.856
You know, it's just a big old plate of word salad that is really, you know, as uninteresting as reading the phone book that we don't have anymore.

144
00:08:57.876 --> 00:08:59.697
But, you know, the days of having phone books.

145
00:09:00.077 --> 00:09:00.737
The Rolodex.

146
00:09:00.938 --> 00:09:02.418
We can say these things, Nicole.

147
00:09:02.719 --> 00:09:03.719
We're old.

148
00:09:08.282 --> 00:09:13.024
So, yeah, I mean, they put these job descriptions out, and then they're really boring.

149
00:09:13.104 --> 00:09:16.586
And then they are surprised that people are not interested.

150
00:09:16.606 --> 00:09:20.088
And then you have the converse where people are putting their information in.

151
00:09:20.129 --> 00:09:22.550
Then they're not hearing anything from the companies.

152
00:09:22.590 --> 00:09:26.892
Or they're saying, oh, these people are just putting out because they have to, but they're not really hiring.

153
00:09:26.932 --> 00:09:27.493
So there's this...

154
00:09:28.013 --> 00:09:37.183
There's this sort of latent battle that's happening in the workforce around there's people saying there's not there's not any jobs.

155
00:09:37.384 --> 00:09:40.207
And then the company saying, I can't find any workers.

156
00:09:40.908 --> 00:09:42.950
And the reality is, is both are wrong.

157
00:09:44.601 --> 00:09:48.145
And what I would say is that part of the problem is the story in the middle.

158
00:09:49.006 --> 00:09:50.948
A big piece of the problem is a story in the middle.

159
00:09:51.849 --> 00:10:01.219
How often people see opportunities on the side of the worker and how well people are talking about those jobs to the people who need to see it.

160
00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:11.605
And so that communication gap is where the opportunity lies as a marketer, as a storyteller, as somebody who figures out kind of journeys online, journeys in person.

161
00:10:11.925 --> 00:10:18.229
How do you clean up a customer journey for somebody who's looking at a career, a job or whatever?

162
00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:21.570
And how is an employer or a company or an industry?

163
00:10:21.630 --> 00:10:24.492
How easy are you making it for somebody to go through that funnel?

164
00:10:25.012 --> 00:10:26.772
How exciting are you making that funnel?

165
00:10:27.152 --> 00:10:31.253
My friend, my friend, she's like, oh, God, don't get Nicole started on the funnels.

166
00:10:31.713 --> 00:10:33.154
I'm like, but they're real.

167
00:10:33.234 --> 00:10:34.434
Like funnels are real.

168
00:10:34.934 --> 00:10:37.274
They're paths with which things happen.

169
00:10:37.734 --> 00:10:37.955
Right.

170
00:10:38.395 --> 00:10:39.695
And nobody gets out of the funnel.

171
00:10:39.775 --> 00:10:42.955
Like nobody gets to be like, I want to I want to cheat the funnel.

172
00:10:43.056 --> 00:10:48.397
Like when people tell me more people in this class, I'm like, well, you need more people to see the class.

173
00:10:48.817 --> 00:10:49.037
Yeah.

174
00:10:49.057 --> 00:10:50.417
So, you know.

175
00:10:50.862 --> 00:10:54.244
I love job marketing as a lane.

176
00:10:54.504 --> 00:10:56.125
You know, like it's so over-needed.

177
00:10:56.185 --> 00:11:01.188
Because again, we've already established that it starts from this negative place.

178
00:11:02.089 --> 00:11:04.631
But people suck at it.

179
00:11:05.151 --> 00:11:07.913
Like I think I've caught myself.

180
00:11:08.433 --> 00:11:12.695
Literally, I've condensed my team, the stage of my career.

181
00:11:12.715 --> 00:11:18.559
I manage 100 people, you know, like indirectly or directly in New York, like in another lifetime ago.

182
00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:19.660
And...

183
00:11:20.910 --> 00:11:24.632
I've scaled my agency and things back to where I'm comfortable.

184
00:11:25.192 --> 00:11:27.913
But like, even I find myself, I've done these things.

185
00:11:27.953 --> 00:11:36.838
I know exactly and agree with everything that we're saying, but I've, as a, I think a professional world-class marketer, I have sucked at this.

186
00:11:37.078 --> 00:11:40.219
I've been like, what is, if I read that, I wouldn't want to do that.

187
00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:40.980
Like, I,

188
00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:43.250
We didn't make it interesting.

189
00:11:43.310 --> 00:11:47.474
We didn't tell the story of really what they get the opportunity to do.

190
00:11:48.334 --> 00:11:50.916
And that's a, that's a, there's a big gap.

191
00:11:50.956 --> 00:12:05.508
I think that this is like a, this is a blue ocean, I think for opportunity for, for yourself with companies like you're hearing this, go read your job descriptions, go read, go, go see how much friction there is for someone to try to come to work for you.

192
00:12:06.168 --> 00:12:07.469
Yeah, go do that.

193
00:12:07.590 --> 00:12:08.671
Go eat your own dog food.

194
00:12:09.311 --> 00:12:10.673
And then we'll call Nicole together.

195
00:12:10.873 --> 00:12:12.074
But right, Nicole?

196
00:12:12.235 --> 00:12:13.456
I mean, it's not that fruit.

197
00:12:13.957 --> 00:12:16.679
Well, you know, and also you have AI coming into the mix, right?

198
00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.103
So everyone's like, oh, AI is going to take my jobs.

199
00:12:20.564 --> 00:12:22.226
AI is going to take repetitive jobs.

200
00:12:22.746 --> 00:12:25.108
But AI can't replace creativity.

201
00:12:25.528 --> 00:12:29.391
It can't replace, I mean, in some, it can't replace human experience.

202
00:12:29.831 --> 00:12:31.592
It can't replace perspective.

203
00:12:31.812 --> 00:12:38.136
And those things are things that people really, really value is understanding, awareness,

204
00:12:39.438 --> 00:12:44.143
You know, story, being a human in the world, understanding things that a robot doesn't understand.

205
00:12:45.044 --> 00:12:49.468
You know, you look at when people are saying, oh, AI is going to take my job.

206
00:12:49.508 --> 00:12:52.872
And, you know, the trades are one industry that I work in a lot.

207
00:12:52.892 --> 00:12:55.215
They're not going to be fixing that anytime.

208
00:12:55.715 --> 00:13:00.440
The AI is not going to be taking construction, manufacturing, healthcare jobs.

209
00:13:01.341 --> 00:13:03.783
in any, you know, reasonable amount of time.

210
00:13:03.883 --> 00:13:07.767
So the trades, physical work, the work that you do with your hands.

211
00:13:07.987 --> 00:13:10.449
So there's a really big opportunity for organizations.

212
00:13:10.489 --> 00:13:15.193
I mean, the building industry is at a labor shortage of about a million people around the country.

213
00:13:15.734 --> 00:13:16.715
So that's the trades.

214
00:13:16.755 --> 00:13:17.475
That's anybody.

215
00:13:17.495 --> 00:13:18.696
They call them the subs, right?

216
00:13:18.736 --> 00:13:19.617
So not the builders.

217
00:13:19.657 --> 00:13:21.359
The builders are, they hire the subs.

218
00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:24.541
So they hire the plumber, the electrician, the drywaller, the roofer, the

219
00:13:25.222 --> 00:13:35.096
The carpenter, the mason, those are all trades that require your hands and for you to be there in person.

220
00:13:35.116 --> 00:13:36.558
Those jobs aren't going anywhere.

221
00:13:36.898 --> 00:13:39.522
And, you know, when you think about the building industry, you know,

222
00:13:40.223 --> 00:13:42.405
you know, two things happened to create this labor shortage.

223
00:13:42.665 --> 00:13:47.948
One, people that had these companies knew that they thought that it was very hard work and they didn't want their kids to do it.

224
00:13:47.968 --> 00:13:50.951
They wanted them to go to college and they didn't want them to take over the family business.

225
00:13:51.011 --> 00:13:51.751
So that happened.

226
00:13:52.191 --> 00:13:58.536
And then in 2008, when the market crashed, a lot of the workers went overseas, went back to their countries and didn't come back.

227
00:13:58.976 --> 00:14:01.118
So you have this confluence where you've got these

228
00:14:01.758 --> 00:14:12.294
Two situations and you have a massive gap and you've got this gray tsunami that's coming in where all of those people that have those skills are going to be retiring because physically they can't do it anymore.

229
00:14:12.314 --> 00:14:14.697
They just want to go hang out on a boat, which God bless.

230
00:14:15.298 --> 00:14:15.518
Yeah.

231
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:16.480
Why not?

232
00:14:17.041 --> 00:14:17.261
Yeah.

233
00:14:18.887 --> 00:14:30.094
But I think what's interesting is those industries, how and if, how they are talking about that industry, those jobs, how they're talking about it.

234
00:14:30.635 --> 00:14:32.216
I think there's a really big gap.

235
00:14:32.316 --> 00:14:35.338
And I've watched it happen for the last six years.

236
00:14:35.998 --> 00:14:39.921
And, you know, I mean, oftentimes I'll say, how are you fixing this problem?

237
00:14:39.941 --> 00:14:41.242
And they'll go, oh, it's a really big problem.

238
00:14:42.380 --> 00:14:43.861
I would say, great.

239
00:14:43.981 --> 00:14:45.142
Naming it is not fixing it.

240
00:14:45.162 --> 00:14:45.723
How are you fixing it?

241
00:14:45.743 --> 00:14:47.344
They'll say, oh, we have career fairs.

242
00:14:47.905 --> 00:14:49.646
And I will say, how do you market the career fairs?

243
00:14:50.107 --> 00:14:53.630
And they will say, and I'm not even joking, paper flyers.

244
00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:56.152
I'm like, okay, let me just get this right.

245
00:14:56.352 --> 00:15:02.417
You want to fix a million person labor shortage with paper flyers that you cannot track.

246
00:15:03.318 --> 00:15:03.638
Cool.

247
00:15:03.878 --> 00:15:04.239
Awesome.

248
00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:06.180
Oh, car gone.

249
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:06.821
Take me away.

250
00:15:07.301 --> 00:15:07.582
Right?

251
00:15:07.802 --> 00:15:08.883
I think I...

252
00:15:09.974 --> 00:15:15.256
I don't know what they expect, but, you know, to their defense, you know, it's not what they do every day.

253
00:15:15.276 --> 00:15:16.416
Like they're not marketing.

254
00:15:16.436 --> 00:15:17.757
They're not storytelling every day.

255
00:15:17.797 --> 00:15:18.617
They don't think they are.

256
00:15:18.637 --> 00:15:19.858
They probably are, but they don't.

257
00:15:20.518 --> 00:15:28.461
That's I think the biggest thing is people just translating like the things where they think they pull creativity from to do like, OK, this is a creative activity.

258
00:15:28.481 --> 00:15:31.001
Well, this, you know, hiring someone and how you do it.

259
00:15:31.502 --> 00:15:34.783
The question I have for you, Nicole, is how do you.

260
00:15:36.387 --> 00:15:40.870
work with companies and bringing to life the story that you weave?

261
00:15:41.010 --> 00:15:52.638
Like, let's say they're a good company and they're doing some things and it is a good job, but do you help them connect the dots with like maybe the things they should be doing to make that job truly great?

262
00:15:53.424 --> 00:15:53.664
Yeah.

263
00:15:53.824 --> 00:15:55.566
What we'll do is we will back up.

264
00:15:55.726 --> 00:15:57.748
I, you know, I'm a data nerd.

265
00:15:57.888 --> 00:15:59.209
I'm a storyteller with a data.

266
00:15:59.249 --> 00:16:00.230
My dad was an engineer.

267
00:16:00.290 --> 00:16:02.491
So, you know, I come by it genetically.

268
00:16:02.932 --> 00:16:07.115
But I always think about how we would know if we're winning.

269
00:16:07.576 --> 00:16:07.736
Right.

270
00:16:07.756 --> 00:16:10.338
Because I like to win.

271
00:16:10.398 --> 00:16:11.459
I like to know when I'm winning.

272
00:16:11.479 --> 00:16:17.404
That's a really, you say a lot of things that are simple, Nicole, that are actually deeper than surf's level, because that's a deep statement.

273
00:16:17.424 --> 00:16:20.006
It's like, I know that's important.

274
00:16:20.623 --> 00:16:21.563
Yeah, it is.

275
00:16:22.303 --> 00:16:25.164
And so I will always track back to what can we track?

276
00:16:26.065 --> 00:16:28.665
What can we actually track with this thing you want?

277
00:16:29.646 --> 00:16:30.586
How do we track it?

278
00:16:31.246 --> 00:16:36.728
And so I was working with a group in Iowa and they had this big, they call it Build My Future.

279
00:16:36.788 --> 00:16:38.268
It's a one day event.

280
00:16:38.288 --> 00:16:44.210
They bussed in 7,500 kids in Des Moines, all over Iowa, went to the Des Moines area fairgrounds.

281
00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:45.690
It's a one day career fair.

282
00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:46.950
They had about a hundred vendors.

283
00:16:47.011 --> 00:16:48.271
So ROTC was there.

284
00:16:48.291 --> 00:16:48.311
I

285
00:16:48.791 --> 00:16:56.573
crane operators and electricians and healthcare and all these different places for these kids to come and see what jobs were out there, what kind of careers they could do.

286
00:16:57.133 --> 00:16:59.794
And I asked the group afterwards, I said, well, how are you marketing?

287
00:16:59.954 --> 00:17:02.055
I'm like, what are you doing with them afterwards?

288
00:17:02.875 --> 00:17:05.056
So they get excited and now what?

289
00:17:05.976 --> 00:17:06.236
Yeah.

290
00:17:07.116 --> 00:17:10.117
And so they said, well, we're not doing anything.

291
00:17:10.477 --> 00:17:12.638
And I said, does that seem like a problem?

292
00:17:13.729 --> 00:17:14.589
And they were like, it does.

293
00:17:15.270 --> 00:17:17.030
I said, do you want to fix that problem?

294
00:17:17.871 --> 00:17:18.431
He said, yeah.

295
00:17:18.611 --> 00:17:19.171
I said, okay.

296
00:17:19.551 --> 00:17:20.672
So we took the event.

297
00:17:20.692 --> 00:17:22.613
We geofenced it for the following year.

298
00:17:23.273 --> 00:17:29.416
And we, because they, as high schools, they can't market to students because it's a very, there's all these, you know, variables.

299
00:17:29.436 --> 00:17:31.717
And I said, well, everybody has one of these.

300
00:17:32.517 --> 00:17:34.258
And this is a big tracking device, all the kids do.

301
00:17:34.378 --> 00:17:36.159
I said, so we're going to geofence the event.

302
00:17:36.379 --> 00:17:38.680
And then after that event, we're going to market to them.

303
00:17:39.140 --> 00:17:43.122
I said, do you have summer jobs, internships, and apprenticeships for them to go do during the summer?

304
00:17:43.142 --> 00:17:44.742
And they said, yeah, let's market to that.

305
00:17:45.523 --> 00:17:49.344
So we created a landing page and we created ads that spoke to that.

306
00:17:49.885 --> 00:17:54.827
And the signup was an info session to meet with these teachers and the people that were doing it.

307
00:17:54.947 --> 00:17:59.269
And we had in like three weeks, 90 kids sign up for a Zoom info session.

308
00:17:59.749 --> 00:18:00.269
That's awesome.

309
00:18:00.809 --> 00:18:01.670
That sounds like a success.

310
00:18:02.352 --> 00:18:15.002
It was, you know, I mean, there's the part of the journey, the part, the workforce journey is a complicated one because the reality was, is that they kind of had those programs ready to go, but they didn't totally.

311
00:18:15.042 --> 00:18:19.605
So it was a bit of a miss in that they weren't able to take them the next step of the way, right?

312
00:18:19.665 --> 00:18:25.750
Which is that full, I think they did take some of them and I'm not sure, you know, they were, it was sort of a, it sort of,

313
00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:27.250
kind of ended there.

314
00:18:27.671 --> 00:18:32.712
So I think what happens with workforce development is this idea that you have to kind of, it's a long game.

315
00:18:32.732 --> 00:18:34.573
It's not the short game.

316
00:18:35.133 --> 00:18:39.355
And so being willing to kind of be in for the long game.

317
00:18:39.555 --> 00:18:47.097
What separates the companies that hire well and get the talent that they want versus those that don't?

318
00:18:47.397 --> 00:18:49.038
Obviously, we're talking about ways that

319
00:18:49.869 --> 00:18:55.912
no matter the company or, you know, whether they've been good or bad, if they could storytell and do things to improve that process.

320
00:18:56.692 --> 00:19:09.077
But, you know, maybe for someone listening that runs a company that always struggles, you know, with hiring talent in competitive fields, what does separate one from another?

321
00:19:09.938 --> 00:19:13.299
Well, acquisition is one thing, retention is another, right?

322
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:14.820
Yeah, that's...

323
00:19:15.637 --> 00:19:16.863
No, they're very true.

324
00:19:16.943 --> 00:19:20.600
You can bring them in the front door as fast as you want, but if they're going out the back, it doesn't matter.

325
00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:21.460
Yeah.

326
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:29.382
I mean, it's all the things that we know about any company that you've ever liked working for, you know, have it be a good place to work.

327
00:19:29.862 --> 00:19:49.428
Have you feeling like there's a learning, there's a, there's a, the next stage of where you can grow, what you can grow into, what you can learn, how you can expand, how you can be part of the success, how you can be part of a bigger, something bigger than you, how you can enjoy the details of that thing, how you've, you know,

328
00:19:50.148 --> 00:20:00.958
mentorship, extra training, skilling up for more money, knowing what kind of certificates or things that could come and bring you more money, more stature, a path where you can see yourself growing.

329
00:20:00.998 --> 00:20:08.645
I mean, all of the things that we've ever had is, you know, and what's interesting is kids, when they're coming out, they think they're supposed to know it all.

330
00:20:08.746 --> 00:20:11.788
I feel bad for the generations behind me because they were sort of

331
00:20:12.629 --> 00:20:17.153
everything was sort of curated and there was this belief that you're supposed to know everything out of the gate.

332
00:20:17.173 --> 00:20:28.441
And the reality is, is anybody who's been in their business or career for any amount of time knows that it's, you know, it's sort of, it can be circuitous and it changes, you know?

333
00:20:28.841 --> 00:20:36.447
I think what's interesting is I actually researched you a little bit and I saw that you, I hope I'm not misstepping when I say you did not finish Clemson.

334
00:20:36.467 --> 00:20:36.527
And

335
00:20:37.928 --> 00:20:38.629
I did finish.

336
00:20:38.909 --> 00:20:42.753
I just had, I had a two point, I had probably the lowest, I had 2.01.

337
00:20:42.793 --> 00:20:44.575
You had to have a 2.0 to graduate.

338
00:20:44.595 --> 00:20:46.877
I had, I graduated the 0.01 high enough.

339
00:20:47.498 --> 00:20:48.078
So I did.

340
00:20:48.258 --> 00:20:49.319
Yeah, I did finish.

341
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:50.581
Very good.

342
00:20:50.681 --> 00:20:51.121
Very good.

343
00:20:51.522 --> 00:20:52.683
But barely.

344
00:20:53.391 --> 00:21:15.498
But if somebody had looked at a certain perspective of just a GPA, they wouldn't have seen how all of your capacity and all of the things that have come to make you successful, if they had just judged you on a GPA, they wouldn't have seen the wholeness of you, right?

345
00:21:16.098 --> 00:21:16.318
Right.

346
00:21:16.870 --> 00:21:17.370
For sure.

347
00:21:18.151 --> 00:21:24.316
Uh, I, I'd put my lifetime earnings versus GPA, uh, against a lot of equals.

348
00:21:24.896 --> 00:21:25.116
Yeah.

349
00:21:25.176 --> 00:21:25.857
And a lot of people.

350
00:21:25.877 --> 00:21:27.518
Correlation has been absolutely zero.

351
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:28.419
Yeah.

352
00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:36.605
And I think so many people who, you know, that have created successful companies didn't graduate from college or didn't, you know what I mean?

353
00:21:36.905 --> 00:21:39.247
There, it's so much about, um,

354
00:21:41.224 --> 00:21:45.826
sort of real world practical understanding of like what you learn out in the world.

355
00:21:46.766 --> 00:21:55.128
But I think it's, it goes to the idea of if you see somebody in one way, you're missing all of the opportunities of what they could provide.

356
00:21:55.169 --> 00:21:57.129
So I think it's that two-way dialogue.

357
00:21:57.449 --> 00:22:05.432
If you're an employer is really looking at an understanding potential and also allowing people to move based on their,

358
00:22:06.152 --> 00:22:06.895
what they're good at.

359
00:22:07.076 --> 00:22:12.033
You know, I often, when I'm asking people when they're coming to work with me, I say, what would you do

360
00:22:13.472 --> 00:22:15.934
If you could do anything in a day, what would you be doing?

361
00:22:16.475 --> 00:22:17.656
Like magic wand.

362
00:22:18.216 --> 00:22:20.779
And I do it with my clients when they give me a North Star.

363
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.881
I'm like, paint me the picture of how it's done.

364
00:22:23.321 --> 00:22:23.521
Right.

365
00:22:23.601 --> 00:22:24.182
It's done.

366
00:22:24.322 --> 00:22:25.063
It's completed.

367
00:22:25.503 --> 00:22:27.885
You get to do it exactly the way you want it.

368
00:22:28.165 --> 00:22:30.207
It's like you're writing the script.

369
00:22:30.968 --> 00:22:37.874
And it's really interesting because you get to hear what and it's sometimes things you wouldn't have even imagined.

370
00:22:37.954 --> 00:22:38.235
So I'm.

371
00:22:39.093 --> 00:22:43.378
Yeah, I think that's a long-winded answer to your question.

372
00:22:43.398 --> 00:22:43.958
No, it's good.

373
00:22:43.978 --> 00:22:45.220
We're getting into some good topics.

374
00:22:45.300 --> 00:22:45.700
I love it.

375
00:22:45.861 --> 00:22:47.362
Talking with Nicole Feenstra.

376
00:22:47.382 --> 00:22:50.606
She is the founder and CEO of the DNA Agency.

377
00:22:50.966 --> 00:22:56.813
Nicole, you know, we broached the AI topic and...

378
00:22:58.303 --> 00:23:00.964
It's related, but it's somewhat related to what I'm going to ask.

379
00:23:01.464 --> 00:23:13.907
You know, with AI, with the proliferation of these tools and things that are going on, I'd love to know what you're seeing, you know, the impact is overall in the job market.

380
00:23:13.987 --> 00:23:20.369
I think more broadly and potentially more interesting than that would be, I think there's, we've been in this period where it's been real cool to become an entrepreneur.

381
00:23:20.409 --> 00:23:21.710
entrepreneur or for yourself.

382
00:23:21.890 --> 00:23:25.612
And then now you've had the tools that actually enable it to be more accessible.

383
00:23:25.812 --> 00:23:41.360
How is that playing a role in hiring or is it, you know, being an entrepreneur and me seeing that, I might be in my own little bubble thinking, well, I guess everybody's thinking about doing this now, but is that the case or is that something people have to,

384
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:43.241
Is there education in that?

385
00:23:43.281 --> 00:23:44.621
Because I educate people all the time.

386
00:23:44.661 --> 00:23:45.842
I say, go work for somebody.

387
00:23:46.082 --> 00:23:47.202
I did it for 15 years.

388
00:23:47.522 --> 00:23:51.704
Like, you know, oh, it's cool to be on shore, but I worked for other people for 15 years.

389
00:23:51.764 --> 00:23:55.525
I cut my teeth, learned from others, you know, absorbed a lot.

390
00:23:55.705 --> 00:23:56.986
So I coach people that way.

391
00:23:57.266 --> 00:24:01.088
But I also know if I'd had the tools we have today, I might not have taken the path I did.

392
00:24:01.168 --> 00:24:02.188
But I digress.

393
00:24:02.268 --> 00:24:04.529
I think you know what I'm asking, Nicole, thoughts here.

394
00:24:04.689 --> 00:24:05.390
Well, you're right.

395
00:24:05.590 --> 00:24:08.071
Being an entrepreneur is a lot harder than it looks.

396
00:24:08.232 --> 00:24:14.276
What people don't realize is you are your own boss and when things have to get done, you're the only one.

397
00:24:14.896 --> 00:24:18.539
It definitely is not for the faint of heart.

398
00:24:18.719 --> 00:24:19.460
I would say...

399
00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:21.580
I agree with you.

400
00:24:21.620 --> 00:24:31.964
Working within a company and within an organization to see how things run when there's a system is really helpful because businesses work best when there's some sort of systems in place.

401
00:24:32.004 --> 00:24:44.108
And if you've never worked with another system and you're not systems minded or an operations expert, then it is good to kind of have an experience of what that looks like in another company.

402
00:24:44.308 --> 00:24:50.152
Yeah, you know, I think what's interesting is if you have, so I'm all about niches, right?

403
00:24:50.173 --> 00:24:53.375
Because I think the niche is where expertise is.

404
00:24:53.395 --> 00:24:55.577
That's why I call the company the DNA agency.

405
00:24:55.997 --> 00:25:05.885
Because you and I or anybody, you know, if you were a woman and blonde, I would say this as well, which is that you and I are 98% exactly the same genetically.

406
00:25:05.925 --> 00:25:07.826
It's only 2% that makes us different.

407
00:25:07.886 --> 00:25:12.750
And yet nobody would say that you and I look the same, are the same, sound the same or anything.

408
00:25:13.370 --> 00:25:28.277
So if it's that small amount that makes us different and yet it's everything, that's what I work to extract with my clients, with a company, with yourself when you're out in the job market, is like what makes you completely and utterly unique?

409
00:25:28.798 --> 00:25:32.139
What makes this job completely and utterly unique?

410
00:25:32.159 --> 00:25:35.481
What makes the product that you want to sell completely and utterly unique?

411
00:25:35.681 --> 00:25:38.082
I always tell this story about my big fat Greek wedding.

412
00:25:38.122 --> 00:25:39.363
I don't know if you saw that movie.

413
00:25:39.903 --> 00:25:40.964
Yeah, it's been a while.

414
00:25:41.145 --> 00:25:43.667
It's a cool marketing story, if you haven't heard it.

415
00:25:43.908 --> 00:25:46.010
It was Nia Vartalus.

416
00:25:46.070 --> 00:25:47.091
She had a one-woman show.

417
00:25:47.312 --> 00:25:48.313
Nobody knew who she was.

418
00:25:48.473 --> 00:25:50.335
Tom Hanks' wife, Rita Wilson, is Greek.

419
00:25:50.515 --> 00:25:51.356
She thought it was awesome.

420
00:25:51.376 --> 00:25:53.659
They said, let's make this into a little independent movie.

421
00:25:54.199 --> 00:26:00.546
They go make it, and they have, despite Rita Wilson being Tom Hanks' wife, they don't have really a large marketing budget.

422
00:26:00.566 --> 00:26:01.087
Yeah.

423
00:26:01.367 --> 00:26:10.273
And so they decide to seed the movie in Greek Orthodox churches before the movie opens and get this like groundswell of support.

424
00:26:10.814 --> 00:26:14.016
And it was because it was brilliant.

425
00:26:14.336 --> 00:26:15.136
It was brilliant.

426
00:26:15.257 --> 00:26:19.279
And it was like all these people that understood that, yes, the best way to clean everything is Windex.

427
00:26:19.479 --> 00:26:24.783
And so they opened wider than any romantic comedy of its time before.

428
00:26:24.923 --> 00:26:28.826
And for about 30 years after, they stayed in theaters longer than Titanic.

429
00:26:29.486 --> 00:26:35.111
And I use that story because it's all about finding the people that are into the thing you're into.

430
00:26:35.331 --> 00:26:39.795
And the great thing about digital marketing and the great thing about the tools we have is you can find those people.

431
00:26:40.015 --> 00:26:47.221
You can find that subset of people that are into your tennis shoes that feature comic book characters from the 1980s.

432
00:26:47.602 --> 00:26:53.186
You know, like people can find the thing that is that you can really find your audience.

433
00:26:53.487 --> 00:26:56.349
And when you focus on the thing that is the specific thing,

434
00:26:56.509 --> 00:26:58.151
you can then open yourself up to more.

435
00:26:58.512 --> 00:27:00.795
So I use that analogy for a lot of things.

436
00:27:00.855 --> 00:27:05.922
I use it for how you sell a product, how you sell yourself, how you sell the opportunity.

437
00:27:06.382 --> 00:27:11.930
You know, we're working on a project right now with a group of governments that's along two freeways.

438
00:27:11.970 --> 00:27:13.171
I call it the gateway city.

439
00:27:13.892 --> 00:27:27.365
And we've got 42 training programs on this website called the Gateway Cities Hub that and we have narrowed down to what a day in the life of an admin assistant in government looks like.

440
00:27:27.986 --> 00:27:33.691
And it is specific to what they do so that I'm not just looking at like admin general.

441
00:27:34.272 --> 00:27:37.034
I'm seeing what an admin within government would do.

442
00:27:37.655 --> 00:27:40.376
And that's now it now I understand it more.

443
00:27:40.516 --> 00:27:47.638
And if you if you're looking to sell somebody on a job, like what makes that job different than any other job?

444
00:27:47.818 --> 00:27:49.339
I don't know.

445
00:27:49.379 --> 00:27:52.840
I mean, I keep coming back to the more we talk, the.

446
00:27:53.260 --> 00:27:56.383
framing of the opportunity instead of the framing of the job.

447
00:27:56.643 --> 00:27:59.145
And yeah, it's about the duties and the tasks and all that.

448
00:27:59.165 --> 00:27:59.705
Of course, it is.

449
00:27:59.745 --> 00:28:05.210
Here's your list of tasks that you're going to have tasks in anything that this job or that's even not a job.

450
00:28:05.390 --> 00:28:14.437
Even if it's fun, if you're planting a garden or doing whatever your hobby is, there's a list of tasks that you have to do to complete it or have success or measured results.

451
00:28:14.617 --> 00:28:19.061
But it's all about the opportunity to have impact, right?

452
00:28:19.081 --> 00:28:20.302
Because that's what people want.

453
00:28:21.034 --> 00:28:29.445
I think when it gets down to it, they want to feel like they have, you know, a purpose and, you know, like a meaning and what they're doing will show up.

454
00:28:30.907 --> 00:28:32.669
And I think that's a big part of it, too.

455
00:28:32.729 --> 00:28:32.969
Right.

456
00:28:33.049 --> 00:28:33.169
Yeah.

457
00:28:33.189 --> 00:28:33.310
Yeah.

458
00:28:33.963 --> 00:28:34.203
Yeah.

459
00:28:34.643 --> 00:28:38.524
No, I mean, especially the younger generation, they're not as motivated by the money.

460
00:28:38.544 --> 00:28:41.485
They're they're very motivated by a bigger cause.

461
00:28:41.505 --> 00:28:45.686
Like I think there's definitely people are often, you know, motivated by money.

462
00:28:45.706 --> 00:28:57.510
But I think definitely like Gen Z, Alpha, they're really about like, what are we doing in the big in the big stage of things, you know, in the big in the big, the big sense of things.

463
00:28:58.350 --> 00:29:06.313
And I think as I've started hiring people and what I see motivates people is like, oh, are we doing something cool?

464
00:29:06.433 --> 00:29:09.595
Are we doing something that's going to make people's lives better?

465
00:29:09.655 --> 00:29:14.597
Are we doing something that's going to impact community and society in a better way?

466
00:29:15.057 --> 00:29:20.279
Obviously, working in workforce development, we get to talk about, hey, how quickly can people see jobs and jobs?

467
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:22.180
pay their bills and do the things that they want.

468
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.542
And that I think is a good thing.

469
00:29:24.682 --> 00:29:27.244
I have found that my team really is excited by that.

470
00:29:27.304 --> 00:29:30.126
They don't feel like they're just selling another widget, you know?

471
00:29:30.327 --> 00:29:35.791
So yeah, I think, I do think people want to feel like they're doing something bigger than themselves.

472
00:29:43.981 --> 00:29:45.882
Nicole, someone comes to you.

473
00:29:46.542 --> 00:29:47.302
What's the process?

474
00:29:47.822 --> 00:29:50.603
Like, how are we going, attacking this?

475
00:29:50.643 --> 00:29:52.764
How are we directly helping people?

476
00:29:52.884 --> 00:29:55.104
Like, the nuts and bolts of how you work.

477
00:29:55.164 --> 00:29:56.405
Yeah, that's a great question.

478
00:29:56.525 --> 00:30:01.066
I will first ask what problem they're trying to solve.

479
00:30:01.266 --> 00:30:02.206
Bigger, big picture.

480
00:30:02.226 --> 00:30:04.007
Like, what's the problem you're trying to solve?

481
00:30:05.168 --> 00:30:08.171
And who needs the problem solved beyond you?

482
00:30:08.251 --> 00:30:12.216
Like what's and what problem are you solving for the people that you want something from?

483
00:30:12.376 --> 00:30:24.449
So and then we will look at sort of who needs to see that message and where are those people and what things can we create for them to follow that journey that we talked about at the beginning.

484
00:30:24.770 --> 00:30:25.010
Right.

485
00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:26.610
What pages are they seeing?

486
00:30:26.650 --> 00:30:27.850
What ads are they seeing?

487
00:30:27.890 --> 00:30:32.111
What messages are they getting in different vehicles or different places where they go?

488
00:30:32.591 --> 00:30:33.691
And then how do we track it?

489
00:30:34.072 --> 00:30:37.832
How do we track whether or not people like this message or that message?

490
00:30:38.432 --> 00:30:39.372
Where do they fall off?

491
00:30:39.572 --> 00:30:40.293
And it's iterative.

492
00:30:40.413 --> 00:30:43.053
You know, I always tell them we're not going to get everything the first bite of the apple.

493
00:30:43.093 --> 00:30:44.853
You know, we're going to unpack it like an onion.

494
00:30:45.193 --> 00:30:46.074
We're going to unwrap it.

495
00:30:46.594 --> 00:30:48.934
I'm using, I'm mixing all of the metaphors.

496
00:30:48.954 --> 00:30:50.054
We're going to unwrap the package.

497
00:30:50.094 --> 00:30:51.354
We're going to unwrap the onion.

498
00:30:51.615 --> 00:30:52.695
Yeah.

499
00:30:54.675 --> 00:30:56.636
We'll think of another one to go over there too.

500
00:30:57.236 --> 00:30:59.156
Peel back the onion, peel back the package.

501
00:30:59.236 --> 00:31:00.737
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

502
00:31:00.837 --> 00:31:01.257
We will.

503
00:31:01.597 --> 00:31:02.457
Exactly.

504
00:31:02.477 --> 00:31:06.178
So yeah, so we look at that and we see how we do the first pass.

505
00:31:06.238 --> 00:31:08.959
And I like to get in fast and iterate faster.

506
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.360
A lot of people want to perfect, perfect, perfect.

507
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:20.288
And I think what they don't realize is people will not spend a lot of time with the thing that you think and you're spending 18 million hours on.

508
00:31:20.328 --> 00:31:28.515
Like how quickly can you make that message as good as possible and then get to what it unpacks and create a dialogue as opposed to a model?

509
00:31:28.775 --> 00:31:34.520
So how quickly can we create this dialogue between the people who need to see the thing and you and make it a two-way street?

510
00:31:34.580 --> 00:31:37.281
Iteration, yes, you're playing my love language.

511
00:31:38.622 --> 00:31:48.506
I mean, in business, like literally, like I'm telling you, enact some things and see, you know, it's not just like, well, throw a lot of, throw a bunch of spaghetti on the wall and hope it sticks.

512
00:31:48.646 --> 00:31:51.427
You wanna have a process, but then like, let's learn.

513
00:31:51.687 --> 00:31:53.267
Like, I think you nailed it.

514
00:31:53.327 --> 00:31:54.448
People get so caught up in,

515
00:31:54.668 --> 00:31:56.391
this step and that, do we have that in order?

516
00:31:56.411 --> 00:31:59.034
I'm not sure, but let's talk to Fred in accounting.

517
00:31:59.094 --> 00:32:07.747
And it's like, we could have learned already with three different ways and had real customer feedback or client feedback or employee feedback.

518
00:32:07.767 --> 00:32:08.188
Yeah, yeah.

519
00:32:08.448 --> 00:32:09.169
All of those things.

520
00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:11.591
Yeah, qualitative and quantitative.

521
00:32:11.611 --> 00:32:21.839
You get to see how many people saw it and what insights did you grab and how quickly do you take those insights and use them for the next thing.

522
00:32:21.899 --> 00:32:28.264
So oftentimes, you know, I'll ask them, what do you think you know and what do you think you what don't you know?

523
00:32:28.744 --> 00:32:33.488
Like if you there are things, you know, are there questions or is there insight about these people that you know?

524
00:32:33.828 --> 00:32:36.251
you know, the audience that you're going after that you don't know.

525
00:32:36.752 --> 00:32:41.077
And let's validate the things that you think you do know, because maybe you don't know at all.

526
00:32:41.678 --> 00:32:48.286
And I think that's the thing that I find very interesting as a storyteller, because I started as an actor and then a writer, producer,

527
00:32:48.947 --> 00:32:56.451
And so I think like a performer, but my customer journey, I also have a mild version of ADHD.

528
00:32:56.811 --> 00:32:58.352
So I get distracted real fast.

529
00:32:58.832 --> 00:33:04.676
So it's a combo between how well am I telling a story quickly because I get distracted.

530
00:33:04.756 --> 00:33:11.920
So like if I'm distracted, like, you know, so all of my, all of the things that I work with people on is like ADHD proof.

531
00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:16.142
Cause I'm like, if you've lost me, I'm just going to assume you've lost everybody.

532
00:33:17.353 --> 00:33:17.813
For sure.

533
00:33:17.953 --> 00:33:29.564
The point is you have a process for working with people and you iterate fast, you change fast, but you start tracking the results to see how you move the needle, where you move the needle.

534
00:33:29.984 --> 00:33:42.055
And Nicole, talk to me about where people can learn more about what you're up to, learn more about the DNA agency and, you know, maybe any final like small steps that every company could be taking.

535
00:33:42.135 --> 00:33:42.596
I love that.

536
00:33:42.636 --> 00:33:42.876
Yeah.

537
00:33:42.896 --> 00:33:45.819
Well, the website is the DNA agency.com with one A.

538
00:33:45.939 --> 00:33:46.700
It's just one A.

539
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:47.561
One A.

540
00:33:47.581 --> 00:33:48.382
The DNA agency.

541
00:33:48.402 --> 00:33:49.603
DNA agency.

542
00:33:49.923 --> 00:33:50.884
DNA agency.

543
00:33:50.904 --> 00:33:53.307
DNA agency.

544
00:33:53.527 --> 00:33:53.888
Okay.

545
00:33:53.908 --> 00:33:54.148
Sorry.

546
00:33:54.368 --> 00:33:54.949
Exactly.

547
00:33:55.529 --> 00:33:58.152
So we have some case studies on there.

548
00:33:58.172 --> 00:33:59.334
We have some stories on there.

549
00:33:59.354 --> 00:34:01.356
Some cute FAQs and things like that.

550
00:34:01.516 --> 00:34:03.238
All my contact info is on there.

551
00:34:03.478 --> 00:34:07.419
And I also put, I have been putting more stories on LinkedIn.

552
00:34:07.539 --> 00:34:11.060
So we've been doing some story building on LinkedIn.

553
00:34:11.100 --> 00:34:13.141
There's some interesting tangential stories.

554
00:34:13.161 --> 00:34:15.822
You'll see the, my big fat Greek wedding story.

555
00:34:15.842 --> 00:34:18.342
You'll see the 21 stories, 21 times story.

556
00:34:18.602 --> 00:34:20.223
So I have a lot of stuff on LinkedIn.

557
00:34:20.643 --> 00:34:24.645
Yeah, I would say if you're thinking about, well, I guess two things.

558
00:34:24.965 --> 00:34:41.752
One, if you're working in workforce development, you're trying to find people for your industries, your company, I would look at how you're saying what you're saying and take it in isolation as if you were trying to explain that to somebody on an elevator between the first and the second floor.

559
00:34:41.912 --> 00:34:42.132
Yeah.

560
00:34:42.152 --> 00:34:42.372
Right?

561
00:34:42.752 --> 00:34:43.573
How quickly...

562
00:34:44.473 --> 00:34:46.514
Would you get would you get the thing?

563
00:34:47.115 --> 00:34:50.957
And how quickly does somebody get what's in it for me?

564
00:34:51.398 --> 00:34:51.918
The with him.

565
00:34:51.958 --> 00:34:52.118
Right.

566
00:34:52.138 --> 00:34:52.778
What's in it for me?

567
00:34:53.259 --> 00:34:53.799
How quickly.

568
00:34:53.819 --> 00:34:55.160
That's everybody's favorite radio.

569
00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:56.281
See, we are alike.

570
00:34:56.481 --> 00:34:59.222
That's everybody's favorite radio station is WIFM.

571
00:35:00.303 --> 00:35:00.744
Yes.

572
00:35:01.004 --> 00:35:02.004
Well, that's in it for me, baby.

573
00:35:02.024 --> 00:35:03.546
Yeah, what's in it for me?

574
00:35:04.006 --> 00:35:04.466
Exactly.

575
00:35:04.486 --> 00:35:09.270
Because so many companies want to put on their site all the things about them.

576
00:35:09.370 --> 00:35:14.193
Half the time, it looks like it's for the people who would be giving the money.

577
00:35:14.274 --> 00:35:16.775
It doesn't necessarily look like it's for the people for the jobs.

578
00:35:17.156 --> 00:35:20.959
So how quickly would somebody know what's in it for them?

579
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.722
That would be the thing I would have you look at with your company.

580
00:35:25.882 --> 00:35:26.763
And I would say...

581
00:35:27.203 --> 00:35:33.106
If you had to boil down the story, is it something that you would want to listen to at a party?

582
00:35:33.707 --> 00:35:45.733
Is it something that would, if you were telling the story of your work, your company, is it something that if somebody wasn't in your industry, is it a story that would inspire you?

583
00:35:45.994 --> 00:35:51.897
I talked to a woman, a young woman, and she was in plumbing and somebody said, you know,

584
00:35:52.197 --> 00:35:54.518
Does it seem weird that you're doing plumbing?

585
00:35:54.558 --> 00:35:57.200
You know, like, do you feel out of place with all these guys?

586
00:35:57.860 --> 00:36:03.203
And she said, no, I saw that dude that's a dum-dum doing it.

587
00:36:03.223 --> 00:36:04.743
And I thought if he can do it, I can do it.

588
00:36:04.944 --> 00:36:06.885
And I thought that was a very funny story.

589
00:36:06.905 --> 00:36:13.208
And I think it's, what it does is it says a lot with a little, which is why would women want to be in the trades?

590
00:36:13.488 --> 00:36:17.070
A sense of humor that women have about being in the workplace in general.

591
00:36:17.590 --> 00:36:21.172
It says a lot of things with just a tangential story.

592
00:36:21.472 --> 00:36:25.614
And so I think those kinds of stories, you know, there's an old adage, facts tell, story sell.

593
00:36:25.694 --> 00:36:28.895
So what kind of human story are you telling with the opportunity?

594
00:36:28.935 --> 00:36:29.515
I love it.

595
00:36:30.416 --> 00:36:31.276
Cole, it's been a lot of fun.

596
00:36:31.836 --> 00:36:32.997
Yeah, it has.

597
00:36:33.297 --> 00:36:33.797
Thank you.

598
00:36:34.456 --> 00:36:35.477
A lot to learn here.

599
00:36:35.577 --> 00:36:41.140
And I mean, it's an important, it's, there's so much, your company is only as good as the people you have, you know, it's representation.

600
00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:50.925
So you got to put more effort, more stories, more energy and more opportunity in these positions and how you put them out there and then delivering it every day and measuring it.

601
00:36:51.506 --> 00:36:57.189
I learned a lot and it was a lot of reminders in some ways, but then gave me a couple ideas as well.

602
00:36:57.269 --> 00:36:58.970
So I appreciate you for that, Nicole.

603
00:36:59.290 --> 00:37:00.130
Oh, absolutely.

604
00:37:00.150 --> 00:37:00.910
I appreciate you.

605
00:37:00.930 --> 00:37:04.611
I love what you're representing.

606
00:37:04.751 --> 00:37:06.071
I love your story.

607
00:37:06.091 --> 00:37:10.672
I think your story is a very cool one, and I look forward to keeping the dialogue going.

608
00:37:10.692 --> 00:37:11.512
Yeah, exactly.

609
00:37:11.692 --> 00:37:12.792
Hey, guys, you're here to find us.

610
00:37:13.093 --> 00:37:14.233
RyanIsRight.com.

611
00:37:14.253 --> 00:37:21.714
We'll have highlight clips from this episode, lots of takeaways, and of course, links to Nicole and her company, the DNA Agency.

612
00:37:22.174 --> 00:37:24.555
We appreciate her, and you know we love you.

613
00:37:24.575 --> 00:37:26.335
We'll see you next time, right about now.

614
00:37:26.575 --> 00:37:27.456
Here's the truth.

615
00:37:27.976 --> 00:37:30.058
Information doesn't change your life.

616
00:37:30.578 --> 00:37:31.819
Execution does.

617
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.242
So don't just listen to this episode and move on.

618
00:37:35.682 --> 00:37:36.723
Take the idea.

619
00:37:37.284 --> 00:37:38.224
Make the call.

620
00:37:38.785 --> 00:37:39.686
Launch the thing.

621
00:37:40.286 --> 00:37:41.307
Fix the problem.

622
00:37:41.948 --> 00:37:44.430
Build what you keep talking about building.

623
00:37:45.150 --> 00:37:49.833
For more, follow Ryan Alford on Instagram at Ryan Alford.

624
00:37:50.474 --> 00:37:55.457
And watch or listen to every episode at RyanIsRight.com.

625
00:37:56.057 --> 00:37:57.919
This is Right About Now.

626
00:37:58.619 --> 00:37:59.680
Now quit waiting.

627
00:38:00.220 --> 00:38:00.901
Go win.