Ditch The Banks: How To Buy Real estate Without Traditional Financing with Chris Prefontaine

Your biggest challenge is not finding a buyer. Your biggest challenge is sifting through all the people that are really renters and they think they want to buy some day. That's not who we want. This is right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years in over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping necks and caching checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up, guys? Welcome to right about now. I'm Ryan Alford your host. We're always getting right. And it's always right. Fucking now. What's up, Chris? Prefantane. Hey, how you doing, buddy? Super. Hey, man. I know. Chairman, founder, smart real estate coach. I mean, I didn't do it right, Chris. I didn't start something where I'm automatically called smart every day. Yeah. Wicked smart. Wicked smart. Yeah. Oh, even that now. I mean, you had to get on like layers, layers. You know, I don't I don't claim to be wicked smart. So it's like, I just needed to have a title that said I was. I'm going to give you up. So you are from now on. I know. I need the gear. We're going to exchange merch after this for sure. Yeah. Coming your way. Yeah, Chris. So real estate's an interesting topic these days. It's like depending on where you get your news from. It's all doom, all gloom or I don't know, something of the above, but something tells me it's not doom and gloom on your end of the rainbow. Yeah. I mean, I can say it's two decades ago too, but even more so lately, if you go back and you pull, I did this for the community once. You pull the headlines from the media. It's amazing. They did this right like through the COVID and then after COVID and all of the all of the headlines were wrong. 100% wrong. They kept saying we're going to go into a crash and all this stuff. It started pre-COVID. So now's a great time. I was telling you off here in my 33 years, I have not seen this type of demand. Well, two things. This type of demand for creative real estate, which is what we do real estate on your terms. And just in general, a great time to accumulate unbeknownst to so many people listen to the crap going on in the media. I think for those that want to get aggressive and I don't know the listeners, I'm not going to promise, but I'm going to say generally speaking, you have a chance to accumulate like a decade, let's say, of income by getting after this for two or three years. And that's pretty cool. Even 18 months, if you want to get super aggressive, the way we do our deals. Well, that's an interesting time. So people won't say two years ago, oh, you know, I should have done that. I want them to say like I crushed it. I get after the market, that's unfortunate things are created. So yeah, it's a good market right now. We're going to get into this. Sometimes I selfishly have guests on. Amy told me one of our senior executives here about Chris and what he was doing. I'm like, well, I kind of like what I hear already, but this has always been a fascinating area for me because I own a couple of real rental properties. I've dabbled in this space, but I like to learn. So I'm here. I got my digital note taker. I'm like, I'm going to learn this stuff because I'll say this, Chris, every market's different in here in Greenville, South Carolina. Lovely, beautiful place. Please come visit, don't come live. Joaquin, Joaquin, I love you. Yeah, that Greenville, the city of Greenville hates me because I say that a lot. But it's just I lived out town and there's a crane on every corner. Everybody's moving here. But let me say this, Chris, but I but what I don't quite understand is like in our market. I sold a house here and I'm talking, I know we're going to talk about the business side of it, but like I sold a house for 500 grand nine years ago in Greenville that is now listed for 1.3 with no improvements. Number one, I'm kicking myself because out of sight, I mean, it was a, I mean, 500 K for me 10 years ago, you know, I could just long get hung onto it, rented it, probably done something. But if I do, it was going to be 300% higher. But you know, in nine years, it's like, so I'm building to a point here, Chris. The point is, even with your stuff or markets, these little niches, even like Greenville that are kind of like the top three fastest-growing small cities in the area. Does this system work anywhere? It works. Anyway, this is a really good topic to go on. It works anywhere. But the caveat is, if I'm in your market right now, you plot me in your market. I'm going to look at, I don't care how hot the market is, there are always expired listings, not as many in a hot market, but there are because of functionality or price or whatever. And then there are always people that are financially beat up and need relief tomorrow, but they don't want to raise their hand or they can't afford a realtor because they're upside down. Like those exist. And that's where we tend to live. There are also people in your market that are free and clear. Like a third of the properties in the United States are free and clear. That's a big pool. And I lugged down with them. I bought my office building that way. I've since sold it, but I bought an 18 from a gentleman who was quite savvy. But he not only was open to owner financing and not selling conventionally with a relative. He was seeking it. And that's what we do. So all that to say, you can do it still. Yeah. You're just going to be very careful what pool you fish in, so to speak. All right. I got excited because I want to know, I want to pick Chris Brain. But let's back up a little bit. Let's set the table, Chris. Who is Chris Prefontaine for our audience? Who are you? So I won't do 33 years. I'll put him to sleep, but. We want the cliffs notes here. We want to keep it interesting. Chris, we need we could smart Chris. I'll give you the high points. Yes, I've been kicking around real estate since 1991. That included building homes, rehabs, all the conventional things you'll see on HDTV and other things, right? In 2008, the crash hit and I got my teeth kicked in financially and otherwise. And so that literally took me four years to get my head out of the sand. February, but wait, I remember the date and remember where I was, like a light switch or not. And then February of 12, I started going, all right, I got to get out of my way. I got to get back on the mentor trail. I got to get, I got to seek this stuff out. And I kind of came up with a bunch of rules and the rules were, I'm not dealing with banks again. I'm not signing personally on bank loans because I got me in trouble when the market dies. You're getting called and you notes are getting called and you're on the table. So I said, that's not happening. I'm not borrowing any money. I'm going to buy everything on terms, owner financing, these purchase, never using a bank. Because that's the only thing I could do. I know credit and no money. That was 12-ish. 13 and I said, do more deals 14 organically 10 years ago. People said, seeking out me and saying, can you teach me this stuff? That morphed into smaristic code that year. And now we do deals still locally. My son and I, my son-in-law, small team, but we also teach that all in North America now. And it's fun because we don't just sell people's stuff right and you'll appreciate this in the education world. A lot of people like, they're really good marketers so they can sell you. And social media is full of it. Instead, we go, okay, come into program and we're going to lock arms with you. We're going to do deals with you and we're going to profit with you and revenue share with you or not. If the deal is a sucky deal and it's our fault, we're helping you. So we're in the deal together with the student and that's different. There's not many of those things out there. Most people just like sell a product and move on. So that's kind of what we do and where that came from after the crash. That's interesting because that is different than what I, you know, a lot of people teach things. But put skin in the game, so to speak, with being in the deal with them. That's definitely a rare nuance, isn't it? I don't know. I don't know many people doing that. No, I don't. There's someone that is tinkered with it, but not at our level. In fact, there's one guy out there training people in one of the methods we buy, but he doesn't train him how I close it. So it's like a referral source for us. So I applaud him and he's doing millions because he markets well, but keep doing it because then they will a personal friend of mine is pace morbby. You know, trains, yeah, trains, not too well, sub two. I mean, is that a creative real estate sub two, subject two? Yeah, I mean, is that similar, similar? I mean, we're talking the same language here. Yeah, that's one of the three ways you buy sub two on a financing and least purchase. Yeah, he teaches that one of the three that we do. Yep. Yeah, talk to me. Then let's educate if you want. Let's educate those three. You know, how we creatively buy real estate and let's get nitty-gritty. What is then how do we make money on this? Yeah, let's talk. I think a fun one to talk about be on a financing because that's that niche I said preferably. There's other ways to do on a financing, but preferably free and clear property. So again, a third of the homes in the United States, plenty of people to talk to. And why would they sell to us? And then where's that look like profitability wise? Well, they typically don't want to pay real estate. They typically don't need to cash right away or presumably they want to refinance and pull that out, right? They're free and clear. So they want the best price. We can do that if we have a term. So my office building, for example, I said about 20 year term, that's what he wanted. He didn't, he wanted to put trust in the state planning reasons and tax reasons. That's why they do it. These free and clear people. Now, here's the point of sideline. When we buy these 99% of the time, unresidential, especially not necessarily commercial, we buy these properties. You're the owner. You're selling me the property. You're going to be the bank. I'm meeting you checks every month, but those checks are principle only. No interest. So now we're in a climate now with what, seven, eight percent interest. We're doing zero percent interest. Principal pay down every single month through that owner. So the owner is getting premium, but they're also getting principal payments every month. Now, how do we make money? So when I came out of there and they get asked a question about that, if I have it, I think our audience might have it. How do we get just principal payments? I mean, how? Why would someone that owns something free and clear allow you to only make principal payments and not be making interest on you borrowing their property, so to speak? Yeah. It's typically because there you go. I'm going to say that nicely. It says, I want my price. Like they're financially doing some things well. They're free and clear. They want their price. And the market's not giving it to them because they're so we'll go able to you're giving the price. Just not paying any interest on it. Correct. Yep. And frankly, especially when the rates are lower, they don't want to report small interest income to San Francisco. That's another headache. Instead, they just have principal pay down every month in the deal with capital gains only. So we do it that way. After the crash, one of the other rules that I mentioned that I'll play into the on financing here is when we do a deal, how about we don't do a deal just to get a check? Like flip a house, get a check. A wholesale house, get a check. Great. But that's a treadmill. And I realized that after the first 18 years, I'm like, this is stupid. Every genre, I'm restarting the cycle, right? So we trade back to three pay days. So when I buy a house, like I just said on a financing, well, how am I exiting that? I'm exiting that by putting a buyer in the air that can't get financing today. But we know we have a plan to get them financing over the next two, three, four, five years. We're going to get them mortgage ready. While they getting mortgage ready, they're going to do a rent home program with us. So how do we get paid? One is their buyer. So you're a buyer. You're not bankable yet. You're self-employed. You need two years of seasoning. That's typical. So you come in. You have a down payment and your credit's good. You just need time. So you give us the down payment. It's not refundable. That's how pay day one. That I'll give you some metrics and averages in a second. Pity two is I'm paying the cell or something. Let's call it $1,500 a month. I'm now collecting from my buyer who's going to do a rent to own to get to the finish line, call it $1,800, $2,000. Small spread, small delta. That's pay day two every month, though. Pay day three is really cool. All of the principal paydown on that payment I'm making is obviously helping me when I cash out. So pay day three is all the principal pay down in any markup I did on the property. All three pay days, our deals range anywhere from $45,000 to $350,000. Our family team here is kind of on the lower end. It's like $80,000, $75,000, $80,000 because we're in the wing on the area. So that's how we deal. That's how we exit in those three pay days of quite lucrative. So for the listeners, most of them don't have to do 20 of these deals yet to make those big numbers. They've got to do a handful. I get an attorney who's in our community who says, if I do want it to a year because I got a lot from them running, but I like doing one or two a year and they're quite profitable. So everybody has a different pace they run at, but that's what we do when they're on a financing front. But we exit them all the same way, right? They're all the same. So if that did make sense, let's peel that back a bit. Yeah. So I think it makes sense, but we find a property free and clear. It's owned by someone that maybe is ready to cash out of it, but it doesn't, you know, wants to get their price, right? They'd love to get some payments, some cash coming from it. I want to get what they think it's worth. So far, so good. Yep. And they might even not want to pay Uncle Sam up front. So I want to spread that over time. Yep. And so I want to spread the payments out of her time instead of, you know, a big lump, some hit to Uncle Sam at a price that they did want to sell it at, right? Because you're giving them the price. Right. Then we're finding semi-qualified, you know, like, look good, but just aren't ready to buy the home. They're close. Correct. And they're renting to own. And at that point, are they paying more than what you paid for the house? Yeah, typically a paying premium. Even though we know we have built in principal pay-down, we're still going to usually get a premium on that. Because again, we're giving them terms that they can't get alone today. Yep. And you're a, that, that pooled by Ryan, roughly speaking, you get about, if you stop right now and took a picture of all the buyers out there through Canvas over them, about 80% of the potential buyers right now. It's a big number. Can't get financing today. They need some work. Now, they don't all need two or three, four years, but they, they, there's a big pool in there that are deserving buyers that need that much time. And this, that's a, that's a big pooled a fish. And the relative's a fish in the 20% pond, right? Yep. Big difference. Yeah, it is big. Open a lot of, okay. Okay. If I'm listening, my head's spinning a little bit on, how do I find that semi-qualified person? And now suddenly, I'm in finance. I'm having to rent to own to them. I'm feeling like the banker. Okay. First, how do you find them? Believe it or not, the toughest part is getting the seller, finding the deal, getting that on the contract. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Once you have that on a contract, I'll tell you that when you put a sign or put an ad out and we, and we syndicate to 20, 30 different portals automatically, when you put that out and say, no bank qualifying, you know, rent to own, your biggest challenge is not finding a buyer. Your biggest challenge is sifting through all the people that are really renters and they think they want to buy someday maybe in their life's a mess. That's not who we want. Yeah. I should have raised that. That's kind of, I kind of saw that coming. That's what I meant. Like fighting the, not needle in the haystack, but, you know, sifting. The right one. The deserved one, I'll say. My son says that. So, my son expects to exercise with the buyers and he's got the system down pat and he puts it all out through our community. And that is, they'll come into an automated voicemail system. They'll be directed to videos, the videos educate them. That'll flush out the renters. It basically tells them point blank. If you're looking at rent, it's not for you. It's what's needed down payment, et cetera, et cetera. So, we flush out that in the cream rises and we deal with like the top 20%. Got it. And then, is it easier than I think it is to set up all of this, you know, paper work. Oh yeah. All these things, getting them into these loans, you know, rent to own, because you're not, you'll do the rent to own, but you're necessarily, but you're not necessarily becoming the mortgage once they're ready to own, right? No, correct. They go and apply conventionally our plan through a third party gets them mortgage ready. So, you're a buyer. You come in and go, Hey, I got 50 grand. It's not a new business bank won't give me a loan for two years. Okay. So, we're going to put you with our third party company that helps you with a mortgage ready plan. Okay, Ryan, make sure you do this for your documentation. Make sure you do this for your credit. And then in the two-year point, a three-year point, whatever that mortgage readiness plan is, you're going to a conventional bank in cash now. On the rear occasion, we get people like in their own business that cash out, cash out, but most of the time they're going to get a loan. Yep. And you guys are helping them with get that loan. We help them with the mortgage ready plan. We direct them to our mortgage offices that we know how to get these done, what we call the payday threes, but they don't have to, they can go to the local bank. We've had plenty of those. Go, Hey, good news. They got my loan early. You know, they cash us out. Got it. What's your average? I don't know. What's your average home value price? And I got to roll out. It might be different than other markets. So, I guess we can make it relative. I'll give you the average profit. Yeah, I'll give you some ranges. So, like California, we've got some of our coaches and students out in California. For them to do anything under a million is odd. Like got millions like stutter, right? Yeah. In our area, we're in the like sweet spot here in New England, Rhode Island, mass Connecticut is like that 300 to 700 range. You know, that's how sweet spot. So our average three payday is like 75 grand. Rusty in California, for him to not see six figures on all three paydays would be really strange. Like all of his six big. So Chris, talk to me about like, okay, you've got every market's a little different. And what's like average price points for the homes, profit margins, etc, depending on the market? Yeah, because of three paydays, I tied to price clearly when we talk percentages. That's a good question. All right. So I'll talk about our market and then some students. So our market in New England, which comprises Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, 300 to 700 ish. And our average three paydays that we talked about are going to be around 75 to 80 ballpark. I mean, there's outliers, but ballpark. Now, California, right? We have two coaches in California, one of them rusty. If he does a home under a million is odd, you know, that's like entry level there. So all his three paydays are over six figures, all of them. So we get around in the community because, you know, he's from California. So he's pretty low key and not easily excitable. So for him to get 100, he's like, yeah, you know, 125, 150 on a deal. It's just normal for him. And then all everything on the outside. So Arizona, we've got someone in a really low end. That's with that 45 grand. When I said average is 45 to 350, 45 grand is woven down in Arizona out in Arizona that's low in. So it runs the gamut. I want to get comment too. You said the market, right? And you said it right. He says different markets. I love because the media will go, the market is doing this. So the market is down or the market's going to crash. There is no market. It's they're all segments like you alluded to. Yes. Yeah. I would argue the same thing with like states. When we talk about the nation doing a certain way. Well, let's talk about states, baby. Because you can lock down the whole country with South Carolina. He locked down anyway. I digress. Uh, I know. All right. Let's go to the hard part. Like you said, finding the properties. Uh, you know, and look, we're talking with Chris pre-fantane wicked, smart, real estate, uh, coaching. And we'll have all his links at the end. Because ultimately we're listening to all this, but you know, you're going to hire Chris. I'm already thinking about it. So, uh, well, we'll just get there. But Chris, let's keep down the telling the secrets track. How do we find these people? Yeah. So cool thing is most of this stuff. I'm not going to say done for you because you're going to do it. But most of the resources we provide. So one of them, for example, when your brand new is a lead service that feeds you every day, the expired listings, those that didn't sell in the conventional market, the for sale by owners, selling on their own, and the for rent by owner. Now, those three are good for most people, Ryan, you're new. You go, okay, my goals, I get enough leads out of that batch. If you're more aggressive, where your market's not kicking out enough leads there, there's all kinds of sort of niche lists below that. Like, the frankly, that's where I was kind of like, you know, because that sounds like the most attractive in a way, right? One of the more lucrative because of the principle made out, yes. There are all kinds of other ones like tire lane loads is a list now. COVID produced a list of people that were selling because of COVID now. I don't know how they get this list, but you can buy a list of anything these days as you know. And the other one that we're dealing with recently, tinkering with is believe it or not, on market because we never do this, on market with the rail to more than 60 days with little equity. You can actually pull that, little equity, but on the market for 60 days because they're probably still on because they can't lower the price because they can't pay a commission. And so there's all kinds of creative things we can do there. So there's no limit to the niche list. Property owners with multiple properties. That's a cool one. So I call some when they get at least three properties. I'm talking about, you know, doing something on one of them. Sometimes they have a whole portfolio. So it's pretty cool. Basically, probably the, I don't know, like, imagine, I mean, I'm stereotyping or I don't know if a stereotyping, but sort of lumping together, you know, an older, you know, 60 plus maybe they own, you know, through their own efforts or, uh, inheritance or whatever, three, four or five properties that they own free and clear. And you sort of start to get a, you do one and then snowballs from there, right? Do one good deal. They get happy. You move. I'm sure it, uh, snowballs, right? It does. And plus, you know, people like to hang out with people like them, right? So if you find some of the free and clear property, one of the odds of them knowing some people with free and clear property and their central influence, it's high and they're going to refer you. So that's pretty cool because these deals, they should have said this are super win-win win buyer seller and us, super win-win win. And that's not always the case in some real estate deals, right? Some niches. They're just not, you know, some people don't win in these transactions. Like if you're going after someone's house at 60 cents on the dollar because you're a wholesale, I don't think that's a win for them. That's like, you might have built them out, but it's not a huge win. Whereas we're typically paying them a really good price if they give us the terms. And then the buyer is tickled pink because they thought they couldn't buy a house. So what's the biggest? I guess two questions. I mean, like, we talked about the three. I mean, what's the most common of the three? I think we talked about it just a second ago. I have a feeling. But what's the most common of three? And what are like, you know, nothing is easy. Nothing is free. Nothing is like, what are the hurdles like people have to to get over like to make this successful? Most common would be sort of the owner financing because it's been around since whatever, 1800s. You know what I mean? It's been around in a long time. So they also understand it. Most sellers won't say, well, I never heard of that. They might say that about sub two or at least purchase. Okay. But they almost never say about owner financing. They get it. At least on the surface. And then your second question was headaches or what was said? Just, I'm sorry, you know, just overall like people that have come into this. You know, like, you know, we all like to promote things. Oh, you know, make millions. No headaches. Like, yeah, there's obviously you got a hustle here. Yeah. I did a whole chat to my book called Why can go wrong? And I've actually been criticized for all the educations and they go, you scare people away. So no, I'm telling you that. Yeah. Yeah. So believe it or not, the biggest, one of the biggest challenges that come to mind when you said that is not real estate related. It's mental. As you know, entrepreneurship is not hard. I'm not easy. It's freaking hard. So too many people get marketed to online that you just alluded to going, yeah, make millions tomorrow, get rich. Like my rented Lamborghini, all the stuff they show. And then they come in and they go, oh, wow, like this challenge is and the stuff that goes on in the entrepreneur world. And it's different than having a job. That's the biggest challenge, along with managing expectations, believe it or not, because of all the marketing that's out there. Like, if I don't do a deal in 60 days, this must not work or this must not work in my area. It's all a bunch of garbage. Some people come with so much luggage, like I did after the crash, that it takes us months and sometimes a couple of years to peel that back. It's not me teaching them the skillset to do a deal. I posted, I don't know, four or 500 deals on YouTube. You go see them and you go, oh, I know how to do it. It said, when you get into the mental game of entrepreneurship, that's, in my opinion, the biggest challenge. Do we have a success rate for people to get into your program? Not a success rate. I'll give you some metrics. So in the, what we call the associate program, which is the higher level of people doing deals with us, about 83% are active. Now, active could be that attorney that I mentioned. We just want to do one of the deals. Yeah, he's not breaking speed records, but he's active because he comes to the calls. He's the only supposed to do when he's hitting his goals. So from a metric, the best way I can give you is the 83%. Now, why does 17% drop off, which slays me? I can't imagine that even 1% were, but they do. And it's because of where I said, mismanaged expectations, sunlight events, but that's in any business. But mostly, believe it or not, it's mismanaged expectations. And all right, crazy. You get to promote this is sort of like, like you mentioned, like the lawyer, you know, a bolt on to, you know, something you're already doing or how many people come into this and this becomes the thing. Yeah, good question. Both. There are some people got a lot of them that love their job and they just want to keep their job. Okay. And they'll do one or two, three deals, four deals a year, most that come from corporate, one out of corporate. So we have helped so many people we call escaping the W2. All of our coaches, for example, they've come in their program, no experience, worked their way up, left their job, all of them, and now coach. So that was their goal. If that's their goal, we kind of have a a root now path, a clear path for them to do that. We've done so many times. But we'll support either one supplemental or replacement. It doesn't matter. It's, I think, you know, a key extension. I just kind of thought of this as like, if I'm coming into this, it might be owner financing, you know, a lot of the deals. But I would assume that we still need to have good credit to do this. Well, or not, because I would, I would think the owner financing their, if it's a smart odor, they're going to run the credit on you, right? This is good. No, we don't. Okay, so when I came out of the crash, my credit was in the toilet. That's why I went this route and I had no cash. So no, I've never, ever, ever had an owner run credit on us because my, if they ask it, maybe two or three people have asked me over these, like literally, I don't ask because it's a couple of things. We set the students up with some credibility. One, if you're part of the community, and you go through our course, you're, you're accredited with the creative financing real estate association. That's how you get a credit. You go through our course, take the quiz, and you're accredited. So they get that emblem, you know, that logo. They then can access and reference the national community. We've done, I don't know what it is now, several hundred, maybe over a thousand deals as a community. All that puts that to bed because if they say they want to check all that, they just, there's lack of confidence in you. That's all it is. And frankly, if they have a push, I go, then this isn't for you. It's going to keep you up on that. Your property should be enough security for you. You live in it. Are you not confident in your property having a first mortgage on it? So that's their security. I mean, at the end of the day, they're holding the, especially if they own the property, they get the title right. I mean, so because what's you know, I would even say this, you never know, we've got executives. We've got startup people listening to our show. We might have people that have properties that might be looking to sell them. And you know, they, they don't only hold the title, but what other protections do this, the sellers, you know, the, the people that are holding the title have with the deal. Yeah. Don't know if I agree. Yeah. So in addition to their mortgage security, like a bank would have, if a seller and a lot of masters, if a seller says to us, hey, okay, great. I trust you. I wouldn't be doing this deal. But what if you take off? What if you go bankrupt? Like what I got a full close in the property? If they bring that up in all about a couple states, you can put a default agreement in place. That says, Ryan's my seller on the buyer says, basically, if I miss a payment and you can pick the term 45 days late, then a deed is already signed, sitting in Ryan's attorneys escrow that Ryan go down and record and owns his house again. I'm gone. He didn't have to go through $10,000 with a, you know, full closure percent. Okay. How about how often do you have to do that? I've done a handful just to make them feel better and at ease and their attorneys love it. But less than 10%. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Way less than 10%. I literally could tell you the ones I've done, like the small handful. And that surprises me that more wouldn't want that. You know, he has to credit, although they held the title, you know, I could understand maybe that that made sense when you described it. Why do you think fewer requirements just back to the trust factor? I think besides the trust, I think that if they're getting their price to our early conversation, that's usually their goal. Like I had a, I had a seller once. We ended up doing this deal, but I had a seller who said this happens often with the attorneys. Are my attorneys said I shouldn't do this? Okay, is your attorney going to pay the bill? Like you want to leave. Okay. So I just let him be, as time passes in real estate, things get better sometimes for us to wait. So he called me, Chris, I really want to do this, but my attorney, I said, get a new attorney. Like you pay your attorney. He works for you. Tell me you want to do it. Just protect you. So he went to second attorney. Same thing. A year later, this was like two years. A year later, he called me, said, forget it. I'm just going to do it. And we did the deal. And he's since been cashed out. Like this deal has all gone to the whole thing and cashed about. And so he's happy to claim, but, but attorneys can sometimes get in the way. Here's my line, Ryan. It's very simple. I say, look, if this is going to keep you up at night, don't do it. I'm not, I'm not your buyer. I can date your goal, but it was going to keep you up and I don't do it. I've literally said that many. You may have said earlier, Chris. Talk to me. Okay. I'm selling the property. Start to finish before I get all my money. Tip the average time on these deals. owner-francing, I don't like to write them up term wise less than four years because it's too much pressure. And in this market, and almost any market, but when the market's uncertain, the longer you go out, the safer you are. Because look, in 10 years, I don't care what the market does. If I have a 10 year term, I'm fine with all that principle paid out. So typically, that we write it up like that, but the buyers will typically cash out earlier, three years. If I want to keep a house and I don't want to, it cashed out and I have long terms on it with my seller, I'll even turn around and change around to own to a owner-francing with the buyer and keep them in it. You know, be a bank myself. So there's all kinds of options. I'm trying to keep it 10,000. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. I was kind of wondering if I'm going to go there at the end. Yeah. I'm getting into the, I'm, you know, I go quickly, you know, we're in 101 lesson. I wanted to go to 401 quick, Chris. Like I'm like, my mind's like moving. My mind's moving down the line. I'm with you. Typically, I got a keys to that. What do you, well, you go back to 10 steps, I have no idea what to say. No, I'm following it. I'm just trying to make sure, you know, we keep it like on the level. And so, yeah, you know, I'm audience is listening. This sounds interesting. Chris seems like a really straight up guy seems like he's, he's giving me the good, the bad, and the awesome. And so I'm trying to think, okay, what's the makeup of the person? And we always like to say, anyone can do this at any time. It will work awesome. There's my radio voice for you, Chris. Yeah. But, yeah, for like, what's the, who is, what's the, let's get a proxy of who, who this person looks like that does really well with this personality type? I get a few of my, maybe their career, et cetera. Yeah. I won't prioritize these, but these are sort of the avatars that we see work. One, they grew up in or witnessed a family business because we tend to be very family oriented. So we, we attract that, right? Because we're family environment. Two, believe it or not, podcasts listeners tend to be radio and podcasts shows in them on. They tend to be avid learners. They don't listen to a show for 30 or 40 minutes and not be into self-improvement. So they're typically really good because they put the time in themselves. Three is the six figure corporate earners that go, they know what? I made great money. Some couple come to mind like the medical people, they hustle, hustle, hustle, but they're making good money for the lifestyle sucks. They're great because they're used to work and hard. That's not the issue. They have money. They're not like, oh, I need to deal like I need water tomorrow, like me after the crash. They're great. And they come in and they crush it because they used to doing that. So those are just kind of some high points for you. Check, check, check, right? Ryan offered to be doing this. The other niche, I don't know if you've had, you mentioned pace, but there's there are a lot of people in the wholesale and fixed and flipped business that when they hear three paydays instead of like transactional, I got to do it the all the time. They love it. Not only that, but wholesaling and a lot of states is getting shut down pretty quickly. So they're starting to come to us by community sizes, not just individuals going, hey, teach that community how to do this. So that's been a big draw. The wholesale is in the flippers that go creatives where it is teach me. So that's the last one. Have you done much flipping? I did it in my earlier years. Yeah, in the 90s, I was doing condominium converges right by multies, turning into condos and then, you know, rehab. What percent is commercial versus residential that we're talking about here? Yeah. For us, I teach residential Ryan only because I'm afraid of the shiny object getting in their way. Real estate has a lot of shiny objects. So if I'm on state, so to speak, for analogy, and I'm teaching 300 people, and I start saying, well, this asset class, and this asset, it's going to be shiny object. Now, can you buy any asset class with owner financing sub two in these purchase? Yes, yes, and yes. That's like bought me office building. I sit earlier. So yeah, but I teach single families so they learn the concepts, and then they can go ahead and deal about it. But do you personally, are you doing other corporate deals? We try to buy. I try to buy everything. My wife and I own a financing. Yeah, like that building was interesting. So the building, he was like a math guy and he owned a lot of land in this area. And I'm saying this story because people think, okay, that must be for like the person doesn't know about owner financing or, you know, it's not educated. No, this guy was like the largest land on the island here. I live on a three-ton island. And we structured the ice that principal only, he almost fell off his chair. He said, what do you mean principal only? He wanted six percent or whatever it was. So it was what we did. We did a hybrid and it was a win-win. We did 18 months of principal only. So I hammered down principal. Then I took the balance and amortized it over 5.2 percent over 20 years, whatever it was. And he was thrilled because we both got our way there. That's kind of a hybrid deal. That's interesting. Does this work with house boats and cars? It does. People buy owner financing planes, boats, everything. That's okay. Interesting. I know a gentleman that actually did a jet on owner financing. Believe it or not, the higher like price ranges of any asset, they get it. I had a neighbor in front of me several years ago who bought a three-fold million dollar house. He was going through divorce. So he worked out with the seller. He didn't want that public. So he worked out the seller where he would do owner financing. I think it was like two or three years and then he wouldn't get along with the dust cell. This happens more so at the higher level than anything else. That's interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Chris, as someone interested in this, I've probably asked, there's been more of the tit for tat than my normal episodes. But I really think there's something so, I don't know, a clinical in the business that this is. It's very structure here. It's like we're going down the ladder. Talk to me about anything that the audience is listening, wanting to learn more about we can smart what you do, what your courses are. Let's get to the nitty gritty of what they can expect from specifically from your team. Yeah, yeah. So once they're in the system, they're going to go through a basic course. That's the one I said mostly will sell something like we have and then we just say you need this for your foundation. Now once you go through the foundation academy, you can expect some onboarding for like 90 days. So all the basics that cover the foundation, the vernacular, you get it. And then after that, you decide what level and how aggressive you're going to be in our programs. But we've got an awesome, awesome community director. We've got four or five awesome coaches. They have to have gone through our system. It's more hands on again as I open the show with the night. Anything I know, but that's not an ego statement. That's just the fact that I've seen out there that I'm aware. And how do they find everything that we're talking about? Give me some links and that kind of thing. Yeah. So we put a link together for your tribe, just go to wickedsmartbookswickedsmartbooks.com forward slash radcast I read CIST. That so by the way, you know, you probably clicked on the links before you get a free book and then you got to put your credit card in for shipping. This is free. We'll ship it out of here. You get in high copy books, you'll get some goodies probably. You can also, if you don't mind, listen to my New England accent for almost an hour, you can take my free workshop and there's no one's bugging it. It's a replay. So go take it and enjoy it. I'm big on free, Ryan, because if you go free, and you say, okay, this is not for me, no harm. But at least you did a due diligence, said, I'm, okay, Chris, I think I can be committed to this. Now let's go. So go to smirestatecoach.com forward slash master's class within this master's class. And then between the books of that, you'll have a gist for what's going on and then you let me know if you want a chat. We'll have all that in the show notes for everyone and on my personal social media, I'll be running stories with links to all those giveaways from Chris. So take notes, but just know you can go back to the show notes if you're listening right now and click, you know, it gets straight to it. The Chris, I mean, I think I can pick your brain for like two more hours, but I think we've hit the, we've hit the the end of the road. I really appreciate you coming on. I, um, I'm intrigued. I think our audience will be intrigued. I think everyone's looking for different ways to make income. And I don't know. I think you have a very like I sense the family and while being direct approach. And I really admire it. I appreciate that very much. I appreciate being on, buddy. Yeah, man. Hey, guys, you're to find us Ryan is right.com. You'll find all the links today. You can go there. We'll have the highlight clips. We'll have links to Chris's master class. And of course, the books, the giveaways that you mentioned straight from you know who you don't find me at Ryan all for all the social media platforms. Have that blue check before you can buy it. Maybe we'll see you next time right about now. This has been right about now with Ryan offered a radcast network production. Visit Ryan is right.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.